|
|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 1, 2022 13:50:04 GMT -5
Through the years, I've read repeatedly that the 38-40 and 44-40 are "basically" necked down 45 Colt Brass.
I suppose this comes down to each individual's definition of "basically." In my definition, it's not.
Most know I've spent the last decade building modern guns in antiquated cartridges. This, like most things, has gotten support and condemnation. Neither is unexpected...
From early on, guns in these two calibers have been declared weak. Even when chambered in modern 6-Shot Ruger Blackhawks, the standard hysterical warnings were issued.
Today, I decided to take pictures to support my point of view.
More after Tim posts the pictures...
|
|
|
|
Post by tdbarton on Oct 1, 2022 14:02:37 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by taffin on Oct 1, 2022 14:06:05 GMT -5
Through the years, I've read repeatedly that the 38-40 and 44-40 are "basically" necked down 45 Colt Brass. I suppose this comes down to each individual's definition of "basically." In my definition, it's not. IN MINE IT IS. TTHE .45 WAS/IS STRAIGHT; THE OTHERS ARE ALMOST THE SAME SIZE "BASICALLY" BUT TAPERED |
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 1, 2022 14:20:21 GMT -5
Starline 44-40 Brass measures .462" across the base while their 45 Colt came in at .477". A difference of .015".
Starline 44 Magnum Brass measure just a tad over .452". A difference of .010".
But, here's what matters or at least what I use for a guideline for loading.
The weak point of a 6-Shot Cylinder is at the bottom of the lock notch. I've seen several cylinders bulged at the bottom of the lock notches where the cylinder was otherwise undamaged.
Since both the 38-40 and 44-40 taper, I decided to mark cases and measure case diameter at this point.
The 44 Magnum is straight cased, so .452" was constant. The 44-40 measured .457" at the bottom of the notch for a difference of .005". This would equate to a wall .0025" thinner than a 44 Magnum Cylinder all else being equal.
I measured the lock notch depth on several factory Blackhawks. I found depths varied by as much as. 004" on the same cylinder.
All of the above ratios carry over to my Uberti Revolvers as well. Clearly, they aren't as strong as Rugers. But, I consider their strength closer to the 44 Specials than the 45 Colts.
Obviously, I'm not recommending anyone hot loading their guns. There are many other factors to consider. Just pointing out that sometimes it pays to check things out for ourselves.
I find fact checking fascinating. Figure a few others might too...
|
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 1, 2022 14:25:01 GMT -5
Through the years, I've read repeatedly that the 38-40 and 44-40 are "basically" necked down 45 Colt Brass. I suppose this comes down to each individual's definition of "basically." In my definition, it's not. IN MINE IT IS. TTHE .45 WAS/IS STRAIGHT; THE OTHERS ARE ALMOST THE SAME SIZE "BASICALLY" BUT TAPERED Many folks do!!! I just decided to measure a few things out and share. This is why I rarely post loading data... |
|
|
|
Post by potatojudge on Oct 1, 2022 15:41:29 GMT -5
Are you saying we need a 38-40 with the locking notches in the front 1/3 of the cylinder for maximum strength? Then flute the rear of the cylinder to confuse everyone?
|
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 1, 2022 15:49:53 GMT -5
Well, I'm saying revolvers chambered in these cartridges are far stronger than their reputation would have us believe.
The theoretical strength of Ruger 45 Colts was derived mathematically from cylinder thickness vs a 44 Magnum Cylinder.
If this is true, and it's hard to argue with, then the strength of a Ruger 44-40 Blackhawk (Full Size) Cylinder would be 34k PSI, more or less.
|
|
|
|
Post by 2 Dogs on Oct 1, 2022 19:16:30 GMT -5
Are you saying we need a 38-40 with the locking notches in the front 1/3 of the cylinder for maximum strength? Then flute the rear of the cylinder to confuse everyone? Hahaha!! You my friend have been spending too much time with Ronnie Wells!! |
|
|
|
Post by tdbarton on Oct 1, 2022 20:55:38 GMT -5
Are you saying we need a 38-40 with the locking notches in the front 1/3 of the cylinder for maximum strength? Then flute the rear of the cylinder to confuse everyone? Hahaha!! You my friend have been spending too much time with Ronnie Wells!! Honestly, this notion (aside from the fluting) does make a man think. You also have me all sideways about getting a cylinder cut with M&H flutes… |
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 1, 2022 20:58:36 GMT -5
Hahaha!! You my friend have been spending too much time with Ronnie Wells!! Honestly, this notion (aside from the fluting) does make a man think. You also have me all sideways about getting a cylinder cut with M&H flutes… On the bottleneck cartridges, you could could certainly build a stronger revolver... |
|
|
|
Post by CraigC on Oct 2, 2022 10:16:00 GMT -5
In my old age, after +20yrs of online banter about guns, I've concluded that a lot of people believe a lot of things that are either untrue, outdated, or misunderstood. I think a lot of folks would enjoy the old WCF's if they cast aside the common rhetoric regarding them and sought to find out for themselves. That said, I think describing the .38 and .44WCF's as "basically a .45Colt necked down" is valid and accurate "enough" to give them an idea of what is being discussed, even though we know it's not technically true. You'll then spend more time explaining how the .38 is actually a .40.  |
|
|
|
Post by Encore64 on Oct 2, 2022 10:40:59 GMT -5
In my old age, after +20yrs of online banter about guns, I've concluded that a lot of people believe a lot of things that are either untrue, outdated, or misunderstood. I think a lot of folks would enjoy the old WCF's if they cast aside the common rhetoric regarding them and sought to find out for themselves. That said, I think describing the .38 and .44WCF's as "basically a .45Colt necked down" is valid and accurate "enough" to give them an idea of what is being discussed, even though we know it's not technically true. You'll then spend more time explaining how the .38 is actually a .40. Yep, I have no issue with those who believe the 38-40 and 44-40 are necked down 45 Colt Brass. But, it's simply not true. My point was the same as yours. Before believing what we're taught, it doesn't hurt to think for ourselves. That's why I chose to post pictures instead of just posting what I believe to be true. We suffered through the same misinformation on the 45 Colt before +P Loads before they became common place. |
|
|
|
Post by 2 Dogs on Oct 2, 2022 11:03:25 GMT -5
Hahaha!! You my friend have been spending too much time with Ronnie Wells!! Honestly, this notion (aside from the fluting) does make a man think. You also have me all sideways about getting a cylinder cut with M&H flutes… I do my best! |
|
