blazinbill
.240 Incinerator
Long time shooter, but relatively new to singe actions.
Posts: 35 
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Post by blazinbill on Sept 11, 2022 17:20:27 GMT -5
I’m shooting a 6” Freedom Arms 454 Casull. I’ve watched a number of YouTube videos (link below) and am astounded at how well others seem to handle the Casull recoil, or maybe they’re shooting light loads. Whatever the case the FA is hanging over my head at the top of recoil, and the revolver slips quite a bit in my hands, so this results in a rather slow second shot. Due to all this I have begun examining my technique. I have decades of solid/consistent handgun experience (with a few major wins in comps), and a lot of experience with 44 Mags, but not so much experience with the 454. I’m 6’0” and about 190 pounds and work out 5-6 times a week so I’d say I'm stronger than the average bear. Anyhow, here’s what I’m doing:
Stance – boxer style stance with right foot slightly to the rear (I’m right-handed). Slight lean forward with upper torso.
Grip – Two-handed. I usually hold a handgun with a similar strength grip used if I were hammering nails in with a hammer, but I recently started Bullseye shooting and my grip is a bit firmer now. Left thumb is wrapped around back of right hand so the left hand remains solidly mounted to right hand and revolver through recoil. Four fingers of left hand are solidly gripping around right hand fingers with no finger on front of trigger guard.
Arms – bent arms with a downward pressure towards the earth to help control recoil.
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Post by CraigC on Sept 11, 2022 17:44:21 GMT -5
I have to credit Mark Hargrove for the hold I use, or at least the thumb on the recoil shield anyway. You want a firm grip but not a white knuckle death grip. Bent elbows, absolutely not locked. Recoil should be absorbed through the wrists, elbows and shoulders, not man-handled. If you fight it, you're not going to win. If you lock your elbows, you'll just hurt yourself and strain your wrists.  |
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Post by drycreek on Sept 11, 2022 19:02:51 GMT -5
Hmmm. I’m afraid I’d need a fat, lazy bear !
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Post by bigbore5 on Sept 11, 2022 20:37:22 GMT -5
I shoot basically like Max. Off-hand thumb over the top. Works great for 475 and 500 Linebaugh. Does good for 454 too, but I wasn't impressed with it and dropped the round.
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Post by contender on Sept 11, 2022 21:01:58 GMT -5
Ok, I watched the video,, and if you look at the shooters under recoil,, you will see the handgun muzzle goes mostly to the 90 degree mark often. Muzzle up.
Your technique as described sounds fair. However,, you mentioned shooting competition. What kind? What firearm?
The FA in 454,, (and yes,, I have one,) with full power loads & such can & will rise with recoil,, IF ALLOWED. Watching the video,, each shooter is going for speed,, so they are fighting the recoil a fair amount to allow them to get back on target quickly.
Yet,, when shooting a .454 in the field,, where speed isn't desired (like shown) allowing the gun to move a bit,, (we call it rolling in the hands,) AND working with the recoil for better control,, (physics,) it's not uncommon for one to have a gun go up like that. When I've shot heavier calibered SA handguns,, (A 500 JH comes to mind, as well as a BFR in 450 Marlin) I allow the gun to rise up & even over my head. Working with the recoil.
I can offer a few thoughts. One, get an experienced big bore handgun shooter to study you as you shoot the FA.
Or, go to an event where several big bore shooters will be & work with them.
The FA in 454 is not a competition gun in the speed games. And in the field,, if you make the first shot count,, you won't need a second shot. UNLESS it's a charging bear situation. (And even then you may not need a fast second shot if the first one works!)
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Post by bearskinner on Sept 11, 2022 21:30:10 GMT -5
Everyone holds and shoots differently. I shoot a FA83 more than any other revolver, ( mostly .454) and a lot if it is one handed. I may put my left hand on my right wrist, or on a moving target, use a cup n saucer hold.
I keep a FIRM grip and strong wrist, with a loose elbow. Hope that makes sense. Let that sucker rise, but keep your grip strong, in case you need a quick follow up shot. You can thumb it back coming off recoil, and get on target again quickly that way. Nice when your dancing with Cape buffalo or African lion and such.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Sept 11, 2022 22:20:09 GMT -5
When shooting big bore revolvers for speed, economy of motion allows for rapid shots, you can’t stop recoil. You can use what will happen to accomplish the other necessary things that must happen in order to acquire the sights again and fire another shot. To the untrained or under trained what an accomplished shooter is doing will LOOK like simple rapid fire, without regard for basic shooting form like follow through and sight picture. However a well practiced and well trained shooter will actually acquire the sights for each shot and should be able to recall where the sights were for every shot. In competition if I had a poor or questionable sight picture, that is generally the first target I would go and inspect. Rapid fire even with a 454, or 500 anything without practicing it and mastering the technique is futile when a single well placed shot will do. 5 rounds in 2.5-4 seconds is a great example of skill only if you can land all the rounds where they will do the most good, otherwise the same time taken for a single well placed round is much better.
I don’t worry about rapid fire shots, although I do practice a “bear drill” occasionally with my 500’s. My grip on the gun is similar to my competition grip with both thumbs along the left side of the gun, my grip on my 454, or 500’s is about 50% of maximum for me, wrist are allowed to flex in recoil and elbows are slightly bent.
Trapr
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Post by taffin on Sept 11, 2022 22:45:45 GMT -5
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blazinbill
.240 Incinerator
Long time shooter, but relatively new to singe actions.
Posts: 35
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Post by blazinbill on Sept 12, 2022 5:37:59 GMT -5
One, get an experienced big bore handgun shooter to study you as you shoot the FA. Or, go to an event where several big bore shooters will be & work with them. For handgun comps I am a USPSA Grand Master and shot Major Power Factor, which I know is nothing at all like the PF of a 454. Also shot a 44 Special in IDPA a fair bit. Been shooting 44 Mag since the 90's. Currently shooting Bullseye in an attempt to master something else. I know of no Big Bore events near Maryland, but am open to suggestions on how to find one. I'm willing to travel if need be. |
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blazinbill
.240 Incinerator
Long time shooter, but relatively new to singe actions.
Posts: 35
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Post by blazinbill on Sept 12, 2022 5:38:33 GMT -5
Great pic John, thank you sir! |
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blazinbill
.240 Incinerator
Long time shooter, but relatively new to singe actions.
Posts: 35
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Post by blazinbill on Sept 12, 2022 5:40:00 GMT -5
Excellent advice here, thank you everyone!
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Post by contender on Sept 12, 2022 9:58:13 GMT -5
Ok,, I too shoot USPSA,, (not GM level) but I fully understand the techniques.
The SA handgun is a totally different animal than a semi or even a DA revolver. Grip shape is very different. You didn't mention what kind of 44 mag you shoot. But the differences most feel in many calibers vs the 454 is the general comment of; "The 454 has a very sharp, snappy recoil,, while others don't." A good example is the Ruger .480 in a SA. The .454 FA,, has much more of a snappy recoil, vs the .480 which I like to describe as more of a "pushing" recoil.
I don't know where you are in Maryland,, but if it'll help,, in a few weeks,, we'll be having a "Gathering" at my range here in WNC. I get folks from all over to visit. Including a guy from MD. If you want details,, go to the ruger forum dot com,, "Lounge" page, top post,, a "sticky". It lists the details of the "12th annual Ruger Forum East Coast Gathering."
Consider this an invite. And I'd be glad to try & help ya!
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blazinbill
.240 Incinerator
Long time shooter, but relatively new to singe actions.
Posts: 35
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Post by blazinbill on Sept 12, 2022 10:05:01 GMT -5
Ok,, I too shoot USPSA,, (not GM level) but I fully understand the techniques. The SA handgun is a totally different animal than a semi or even a DA revolver. Grip shape is very different. You didn't mention what kind of 44 mag you shoot. But the differences most feel in many calibers vs the 454 is the general comment of; "The 454 has a very sharp, snappy recoil,, while others don't." A good example is the Ruger .480 in a SA. The .454 FA,, has much more of a snappy recoil, vs the .480 which I like to describe as more of a "pushing" recoil. I don't know where you are in Maryland,, but if it'll help,, in a few weeks,, we'll be having a "Gathering" at my range here in WNC. I get folks from all over to visit. Including a guy from MD. If you want details,, go to the ruger forum dot com,, "Lounge" page, top post,, a "sticky". It lists the details of the "12th annual Ruger Forum East Coast Gathering." Consider this an invite. And I'd be glad to try & help ya! All S&W DA 44's, although I did also own a Dan Wesson for quite some time. The Freedom Arms is literally the first (but not the last) SA revolver I own. Thank you for the invitation, I will go to the Ruger site and get the details and plan for it. |
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Post by contender on Sept 12, 2022 10:06:29 GMT -5
blazinbill,, check your PM's here.
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slg
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 35
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Post by slg on Sept 18, 2022 7:36:06 GMT -5
blazinbill,
Late to this thread... After watching the video, and with your USPSA background, I'm sure you will agree that the vast majority of those guys can't shoot fast very well. There were lots of misses, and their techniques were jerky and inefficient. So while they mostly kept muzzle rise down, it was not a performance to emulate. Just like with practical pistol competition, learn efficient technique slowly until you actually own it, then start to increase the speed. One aspect of this is to have a heel hold on the grip frame, rather than choking up on it. Another issue is to have your support thumb up and waiting where the hammer will be after ignition, so that you are ready to cock again instantly, rather than waiting for your thumb to move back up after the gun goes off.
Any healthy adult who can make GM, can certainly learn to handle a 454 at speed. Just don't rush it. In shooting big bore weapons, I have found that aside from proper technique, I usually benefit from an adjustment period where I just get used to how the gun moves in recoil. I'm currently working on the same issue with a 458WM. Shot-to-shot splits are down to 1 second at 20 yards on the black of a B8. I already knew how to shoot when I picked up the gun, but some acclimatization with the recoil allowed me to use the correct techniques more fluidy, if that makes sense. I think Brian Enos mentioned something about this in his book, though obviously with different levels of recoil.
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