Post by jeffh on Jul 28, 2022 15:23:01 GMT -5
I wasn't sure if I should tack this onto the last thread or start a new one, but since Mr. Garza kindled a fire under me, I decided to make this a separate thread because of the significance of his influence on my decision to get off center on the project.
The original thread was here: singleactions.proboards.com/thread/34194/cheap-revolvers
Now, when I think of upgraded front sights, two names come to mind; Jim Stroh and Fermin Garza. I've used Jim's sights, but have only seen pics of Fermin's, but they are SO thoughtfully designed and well-executed, that I'd put them at the very top of the list. His work is impressive and more impressive is that he can reconcile the perfection of his imagination with a piece of steel. THIS is an extraordinary ability which few possess – to conceptualize in such detail. I'm betting it wasn't congenital - he worked for it until he perfected it.
My original plan, which I had resisted because of the time and effort involved, was to make a dovetailed fron sight and dovetail the rib on the barrel. Fermin had a better idea – to have a slot cut for a blade – like Ruger, Smith and others already do. He has sight blade blanks which would save me a LOT of work. I liked the idea better and set my mind t o find a way to get that slot cut.
I am thankful Fermin jumped in to help, because it looks like it's going to work out much better and be much nicer-looking to boot. My biggest hurdle was getting my gun to a gun smith to have the notch (which turns out to be an awful lot like a woodruff key seat) cut. I kept flogging this idea with my little brain until the beating yielded a solution - I can cut that slot! It will be a pain in the neck, but I can cut it.
Of course this is an involved process, and probably not worth the effort of most sensible people, but, there's always a way. "The way" may not necessarily all that appealing, but there’s always a way. That's pretty much what drives me, thanks to the curse of Scots-Irish genes, donated by hill-people from two different parts of Appalachia.
First order of business was to find a reference, or a datum, from which to measure to make the sight "straight" (plumb, level and square, in carpentry terms) on an assembly which had virtually no measurable surface which were "straight." That's not just because it's a Charter. This is a challenge on many revolvers, but yeah, this one was a challenge. Finally, I decided that if I were to make a jig, which would allow me to "square up” with the rear sight notch, I could do this, so I made a jig from scraps of 1" thick PVC sheet. Someone with a surface plate and a dial-indicator would likely find as much as a couple thousandths from one corner of that jig to the other, but my eye – the one I’m using the sight for, WON’T, so neither I nor anyone else will “see” that.
Before anyone gasps, I was able to measure the sidewallthicknesses of the finished slot (both sides) to the outside of the rib and was within .001” front to back, meaning that for the ½” length of the slot, it was in line with the axis of the OUTSIDE of the barrel to within one thousandth of an inch. I can’t SEE that with my eyeball. Slightly better than the original sight, which was still “perfect” in that respect.
The surfaces of the sheet were parallel, so the bottom would register with the top of the drill press table, and the top would register the revolver frame. Once I clamped in the revolver, I was able to "indicate" off my cutting (grinding) tool in the spindle of my drill press. That involved so leveling, squaring and shimming of the drill press and table, and all for a one-shot deal. Too much detail to share, and very boring.
The tool I used to cut the slot (Hillbilly alert) was three Dremmel cut-off wheels, stacked, which gave me just under the nominal width required. This being a drill-press, not a mill, it’s not so precise, so there is some guessing to do in determining how much of the machine’s “slop” will widen the slot by how much. I tested on a piece of bar stock I cut off the rear sight and was lucky that the “slop,” combined with the slightly narrow assembly of cut-off wheels canceled each other to make the slot the perfect width and with perfectly parallel sides.
The assembly of three grinding wheels has to be dressed to the correct diameter (actually, just over to account for wear by the time it’s deep enough) and so that the cutting surface is square to the table/jig/axis of the revolver. I’ll spare the boring details on that too, but they started out at about 1” in diameter and had to be dressed to half that diameter. Like I said – boring.
Once this was done, and everything was lined up and trued, I knew it was safe to cut off the front sight – AFTER taking/recording measurements to determine the original front sight height, so I could replicate it later with a new one.
That part was easy and quick. Then, I had to clean up the rib, to erase all clues of original front sight and true the rib up, which was a bit wavy and inconsistent. That was easy too, using a couple files, followed with some 220 and 320, wrapped on a mill file to finish it off. To knock down the glare, I went back over it with a 220 grit “sanding sponge and eased the sharp front edges left there by Charter.
Layout dye was compliments of Sharpie. Scribed the centerline after more measuring, and then scribed the extreme limits of the slot fore and aft. Set the revolver back up in the jig, rechecked the square and center from the rear sight notch and the scribed centerline on the barrel and set to the long, tedious task of grinding out the slot. It was SLOW. If you push too hard, the tiny shaft on the wheels will deflect, or you can break a wheel bending it. You do NOT want to break or chip a wheel or you’ll start all over again, getting them trued up and dressed, and the “dialing in” everything again, a these are NOT precision wheels.
The edges of the wheel break down, so you end up with three parallel, round-bottomed grooves forming the slot. To clean that up, I had to remove one wheel and raise the jig by half the thickness of one wheel. Beyond that, deburring edges and the 220 grit “sanding sponge” again and the slot is true on both planes and very clean.
The Ruger sight blade is about .040” higher than the original, a fuzz wide, and the tenon was not a true arc, so I did have to file a bit on that to make it look like everyone else’s sight blades, or to fit the true arc in the slot. I fond that the dimensions of a 1/8” wide x ½” diameter woodruff keyseat are very, very close to nominal for the several sight tenons I measured.
You may see what looks like a slight gap at the front of the sight, but that’s just an errant scribe line. Dumb me – I clamped it up in the wrong vise to take a light pass on each side of the tenon with a file. I did all the rest, up to that point without messing anything up, and then… But this is a test-sight. I’m not sure I want a ramp sight. That would probably make the most sense, since I carry this piece all the time, but I would prefer a patridge type sight, like made for the Service Six. I carry 3” revolvers because I always want a gun available I can use for purposes other than purely self-defense, like a “trail gun,” which can also be easily concealed and double as a viable defensive weapon. So, I’m still deciding on the pattern on the front sight.
I can’t even sight it in right now though, because I didn’t have a n1/16” roll pin! I SWORE I had some, but now, I’ll have to wait for a trip to town. I got lucky in several ways on this project, like the wheels stacking to an ideal dimension, the way the original front sight was “attached,” the availability of the PVC sheet stock, the fact that the “slop” in my drill press is predictable and repeatable, that someone who really knows his stuff (Fermin) voluntarily sought me out and offered guidance and encouragement,… So, I won’t complain that I was out of 1/16” roll pins. I guess that isn’t luck so much as me not paying attention to what I’ve used up.
The original thread was here: singleactions.proboards.com/thread/34194/cheap-revolvers
Fermin (well, several folks) made me feel pretty good about my rear sight on my Mag Pug. I started disliking my original, vague front sight on the Pug, once I had a more visible rear sight but wasn’t sure I wanted to mess with it, but Fermin gave me a nudge – the encouragement to get that front sight done.
For anyone not interested in reading all this, SCROLL DOWN - there are several pictures.
Now, when I think of upgraded front sights, two names come to mind; Jim Stroh and Fermin Garza. I've used Jim's sights, but have only seen pics of Fermin's, but they are SO thoughtfully designed and well-executed, that I'd put them at the very top of the list. His work is impressive and more impressive is that he can reconcile the perfection of his imagination with a piece of steel. THIS is an extraordinary ability which few possess – to conceptualize in such detail. I'm betting it wasn't congenital - he worked for it until he perfected it.
My original plan, which I had resisted because of the time and effort involved, was to make a dovetailed fron sight and dovetail the rib on the barrel. Fermin had a better idea – to have a slot cut for a blade – like Ruger, Smith and others already do. He has sight blade blanks which would save me a LOT of work. I liked the idea better and set my mind t o find a way to get that slot cut.
I am thankful Fermin jumped in to help, because it looks like it's going to work out much better and be much nicer-looking to boot. My biggest hurdle was getting my gun to a gun smith to have the notch (which turns out to be an awful lot like a woodruff key seat) cut. I kept flogging this idea with my little brain until the beating yielded a solution - I can cut that slot! It will be a pain in the neck, but I can cut it.
Of course this is an involved process, and probably not worth the effort of most sensible people, but, there's always a way. "The way" may not necessarily all that appealing, but there’s always a way. That's pretty much what drives me, thanks to the curse of Scots-Irish genes, donated by hill-people from two different parts of Appalachia.
First order of business was to find a reference, or a datum, from which to measure to make the sight "straight" (plumb, level and square, in carpentry terms) on an assembly which had virtually no measurable surface which were "straight." That's not just because it's a Charter. This is a challenge on many revolvers, but yeah, this one was a challenge. Finally, I decided that if I were to make a jig, which would allow me to "square up” with the rear sight notch, I could do this, so I made a jig from scraps of 1" thick PVC sheet. Someone with a surface plate and a dial-indicator would likely find as much as a couple thousandths from one corner of that jig to the other, but my eye – the one I’m using the sight for, WON’T, so neither I nor anyone else will “see” that.
Before anyone gasps, I was able to measure the sidewallthicknesses of the finished slot (both sides) to the outside of the rib and was within .001” front to back, meaning that for the ½” length of the slot, it was in line with the axis of the OUTSIDE of the barrel to within one thousandth of an inch. I can’t SEE that with my eyeball. Slightly better than the original sight, which was still “perfect” in that respect.
The surfaces of the sheet were parallel, so the bottom would register with the top of the drill press table, and the top would register the revolver frame. Once I clamped in the revolver, I was able to "indicate" off my cutting (grinding) tool in the spindle of my drill press. That involved so leveling, squaring and shimming of the drill press and table, and all for a one-shot deal. Too much detail to share, and very boring.
The tool I used to cut the slot (Hillbilly alert) was three Dremmel cut-off wheels, stacked, which gave me just under the nominal width required. This being a drill-press, not a mill, it’s not so precise, so there is some guessing to do in determining how much of the machine’s “slop” will widen the slot by how much. I tested on a piece of bar stock I cut off the rear sight and was lucky that the “slop,” combined with the slightly narrow assembly of cut-off wheels canceled each other to make the slot the perfect width and with perfectly parallel sides.
The assembly of three grinding wheels has to be dressed to the correct diameter (actually, just over to account for wear by the time it’s deep enough) and so that the cutting surface is square to the table/jig/axis of the revolver. I’ll spare the boring details on that too, but they started out at about 1” in diameter and had to be dressed to half that diameter. Like I said – boring.
Once this was done, and everything was lined up and trued, I knew it was safe to cut off the front sight – AFTER taking/recording measurements to determine the original front sight height, so I could replicate it later with a new one.
That part was easy and quick. Then, I had to clean up the rib, to erase all clues of original front sight and true the rib up, which was a bit wavy and inconsistent. That was easy too, using a couple files, followed with some 220 and 320, wrapped on a mill file to finish it off. To knock down the glare, I went back over it with a 220 grit “sanding sponge and eased the sharp front edges left there by Charter.
Layout dye was compliments of Sharpie. Scribed the centerline after more measuring, and then scribed the extreme limits of the slot fore and aft. Set the revolver back up in the jig, rechecked the square and center from the rear sight notch and the scribed centerline on the barrel and set to the long, tedious task of grinding out the slot. It was SLOW. If you push too hard, the tiny shaft on the wheels will deflect, or you can break a wheel bending it. You do NOT want to break or chip a wheel or you’ll start all over again, getting them trued up and dressed, and the “dialing in” everything again, a these are NOT precision wheels.
The edges of the wheel break down, so you end up with three parallel, round-bottomed grooves forming the slot. To clean that up, I had to remove one wheel and raise the jig by half the thickness of one wheel. Beyond that, deburring edges and the 220 grit “sanding sponge” again and the slot is true on both planes and very clean.
The Ruger sight blade is about .040” higher than the original, a fuzz wide, and the tenon was not a true arc, so I did have to file a bit on that to make it look like everyone else’s sight blades, or to fit the true arc in the slot. I fond that the dimensions of a 1/8” wide x ½” diameter woodruff keyseat are very, very close to nominal for the several sight tenons I measured.
You may see what looks like a slight gap at the front of the sight, but that’s just an errant scribe line. Dumb me – I clamped it up in the wrong vise to take a light pass on each side of the tenon with a file. I did all the rest, up to that point without messing anything up, and then… But this is a test-sight. I’m not sure I want a ramp sight. That would probably make the most sense, since I carry this piece all the time, but I would prefer a patridge type sight, like made for the Service Six. I carry 3” revolvers because I always want a gun available I can use for purposes other than purely self-defense, like a “trail gun,” which can also be easily concealed and double as a viable defensive weapon. So, I’m still deciding on the pattern on the front sight.
I can’t even sight it in right now though, because I didn’t have a n1/16” roll pin! I SWORE I had some, but now, I’ll have to wait for a trip to town. I got lucky in several ways on this project, like the wheels stacking to an ideal dimension, the way the original front sight was “attached,” the availability of the PVC sheet stock, the fact that the “slop” in my drill press is predictable and repeatable, that someone who really knows his stuff (Fermin) voluntarily sought me out and offered guidance and encouragement,… So, I won’t complain that I was out of 1/16” roll pins. I guess that isn’t luck so much as me not paying attention to what I’ve used up.
I also got lucky that once I’d set the drill press up and made the jig, that it rained like crazy for just long enough for me to complete the rest of it. I’d planned on grinding that slot in installations of a few minutes at a time between chores. It ended up taking over half an hour from just touching the wheel assembly to the surface of the barrel to reaching the desired depth. I wouldn’t recommend this method to anyone. I just have this terrible habit of trying to see just how much I can do with how little. Stubbornness. THAT, I was born with. Never even have to try, but it forces me to work too damned hard for everything else.
