Strength of L frame cylinders: 6 vs 7 round?

[owen67]

Hey folks, I have been noodling on a 357 a bit stouter than my M19 K frame. Also a 4-5” barrel as the K is a 6”. Anyways got to wondering about cylinder strength: 6 holer has more meat betwixt the chambers, but the locking recesses cut over the thinner portion of the chamber. So is there any real difference between the two? Or any other reason to want a PLUS vs Standard (other than one more round)? Thx for any info you share, even your preferences.

[Encore64]

The Seven Shot should be stronger. Same as when Ruger built 327 Federals on a Single "Six" Frame.

The cylinder is as strong as its thinnest area. So, the lesser steel between chambers is irrelevant when compared to the thickness at the bottom of a lock notch over a chamber.

That being said, pick your poison. The six shot is more than strong enough and has been working fine for many moons...

[potatojudge]

All else equal, I'd 100% pick the 7 shot in an L frame.

[ezekiel38]

I have the same question, awaiting more replies. Mr Bradshaw would be a natural to answer this one. What's your reasoning Potato Judge besides an extra round?

[potatojudge]

Lighter cylinder. Less cylinder rotation per trigger pull. Plenty strong, but I don't have cylinder wall thickness measurements to compare.

You can still get speed loaders or moon clips for the 7 shot.

Where else are you gonna get that kind of free lunch?

But mostly it's free capacity. A revolver can hang with an autoloader right up until you need to reload. For those that appreciate the advantages of a revolver while closing the advantage gap of an auto, the 7 or 8 shot revolvers are a good thing.

[owen67]

Thanks all, I appreciate the facts and also opinions based on preference. The faster/shorter lock work time to index hadn’t dawned on me previously Potatojudge - >15% is substantial! Same can be said about that extra round in a life or death situation but I’m currently trying to avoid those! 😬

[bradshaw]

May 21, 2022 10:04:59 GMT -5 owen67 said:

Hey folks, I have been noodling on a 357 a bit stouter than my M19 K frame. Also a 4-5” barrel as the K is a 6”. Anyways got to wondering about cylinder strength: 6 holer has more meat betwixt the chambers, but the locking recesses cut over the thinner portion of the chamber. So is there any real difference between the two? Or any other reason to want a PLUS vs Standard (other than one more round)? Thx for any info you share, even your preferences.

*****

The L frame was S&W’s response to durability of the Ruger Security-Six trouncing the Model 19 in .357 Mag fire. Aside from the fact that the Ruger frame is tougher and harder, Ruger double actions take advantage of SOLID FRAME construction made possible by loose wax casting. Versus side plate construction found in the drop forged S&W. Smith & Wesson scaled a frame larger than the K to accommodate a larger cylinder, while using the K trigger.

The L frame allows for an extra round of .357. This shooter very much likes a 6-shot cylinder, but in this case 7-rounds is justified by equalizing chamber walls and offsetting the stop notch. As for stretching the strength limit of a 6 vs 7-shot L frame, WHY?

Ruger forever changed the durability landscape of revolvers; I don’t see anyone challenging strength-for-size of the Redhawk/SRH. Certainly no variant of the S&W X frame.

Looks like the S&W L frame does as much as it can in 7-shot .357 Mag. To increase chamber diameter encroaches chamber-to-cylinder axis dimension, wall thickness of barrel tenon, and thickness of barrel socket in frame @ 6’clock. (Ruger brilliantly lowered ejector rod and made it non-rotating to strengthen barrel socket of Redhawk.)
David Bradshaw

[owen67]

Mr Bradshaw I appreciate the info and perspectives and was aware of the durability of all of Ruger double action designs. I have an equipment mechanical engineer/mfg engineering background so their designs impress me. However I don’t REALLY like the GP100 (I can’t say I DO like the 686 either as I haven’t shot one). But I think you may have misinterpreted my questioning the strength attributes of 6-7 holers. I am NOT looking to push the limits of the guns or the 357 (I’ve a 41 and 44 mag). It was more that I have an old model 19, and a steady diet of stiff loads wouldnt do either it or me long term good. So was curious in the 686/586 platform, which is tougher, do you sacrifice anything going to the 7 shot? If the lock work or cylinder was less robust it would negate my reason for buying it (a true 357 Mag). Hoping I’m more clear to all on my reasoning.
Be blessed,
Owen

[bradshaw]

“..... in the 686/586 platform, which is tougher, do you sacrifice anything going to the 7 shot? If the lock work or cylinder was less robust it would negate my reason for buying it (a true 357 Mag)."
----Owen

*****

Owen.... Models 586 and 686 date to a manufacturing period when Smith & Wesson made both excellent and troublesome examples. For this reason I judge by individual example more than model alone. For a new gun the 7-shot would get my nod today. But I would trade a proper 6-shot M-586 or 686 for a 7-shot just for an extra round. I count my shots by SIGHT PICTURE, not volume of fire.
David Bradshaw

[owen67]

Thx Mr Bradshaw. If I do pursue getting one it would most likely be a new production. California, and in particular my area, there is no such thing as a good deal on used firearms. The laws here restrict double action revolvers to what is on the “approved safety roster”, which keeps demand and prices high. To show also how silly they are I was at a shop this weekend, they had a used 686 3”. However it’s not o the LIST, so only a LEO can buy it. The crazy thing is that there ARE 3” 686 on the roster, but not that exact model number. Change anything (night vs regular sights, etc) changes factory code # which then can make it “illegal”. Single action revolvers are miraculously not on this list, which affects all double actions and semis.

[owen67]

I should have said “single actions aren’t regulated as stringently and don’t need to be on a special list to be able to buy or own”.

[magnumwheelman]

Rotational mass of an empty 7 shot cylinder might be lighter, but the rotational mass of a loaded cylinder on a 7 round will be more than a loaded 6 round, with normal to heavy bullets

not looked over a 7 round... are the stop notches as close to the chambers on a 7 as they are on a 6 round

[shorty500]

If you’re worried about the strength of either then you probably shouldn’t be exploring the strength of either-just my 2 cents

[bradshaw]

Owen.... I can’t live long enough to gain with a 7-shooter the experience I have with Smith & Wesson 6-shooters. My shooting 7-shot L frames is, nevertheless, enough to recommend them.
David Bradshaw

[owen67]

May 24, 2022 19:16:13 GMT -5 shorty500 said:

If you’re worried about the strength of either then you probably shouldn’t be exploring the strength of either-just my 2 cents

Perhaps you just read the thread title and none of the posts? Especially my own?
Not to be overly crass, but perhaps go back and read it all, that’s my two cents. There is no ignorant or foolish thought or behavior on my “to do list”.