44 Auto Mag Loads

[crazyhorse]

That is one BEAUTIFUL gun!!!!!

[pbcaster45]

I was looking at Matt's Bullets to see what's new and noticed a cast bullet that might work in my 44.  It's from a Saeco Mold (#431) and weighs 255 grains.  I ordered a few hundred to try, if they don't work I can always use them in my Marlin 44 Magnum.

[shorty500]

Never been able to acquire a .44 barrel to go with my .357 but the .357 is a screaming demon- I ocassionialy push it since was able to #1 score some serious spare parts from Stanford’s estate plu
duh am an ancient machinist/toolmaker with shop at home lol

[pbcaster45]

Oh, yeah! If the .357 Auto Mag version had been available that would have been my first choice!

[pbcaster45]

The Saeco #431 looks like it was designed for the 44 Auto Mag! Plan to load one test round at a time until bolt lock is achieved.

[jfs]

One of the first critters taken with the "new" 44 Auto Mag.... That`s Alcorn Russell holding his 44AM...

[pbcaster45]

I guess I was too conservative, this load failed to lock back the bolt.

Bullet: Matt’s Bullets Saeco #431 (.430/255 Gr. Flat Nose Gas Check)
Powder: Hodgdon H-110 22.1 grs.
Primer: Federal 155
Case: Starline
OAL: 1.595

Kent Lomont recommended a Lyman 429383 cast from linotype over 24-26 grains of Winchester 296 with a Magnum Large Pistol Primer, back to the drawing board!

[lockhart]

I don't know if they solved the problem of breaking the "ears" off of the
back of the bolt* This was a big problem with the TDE Automags* Once one was broken,
the other followed shortly after* I shot THOUSANDS of rounds through my 357 Automag,
and never had that problem* The 44 Automags seemed to be the ones that happened to*
I'm thinking that the heavier weight bullets in the 44 Automag was probably the cause
of that* Once both were broke, it was new bolt time!  Both Kent Lomont & Lee Jurras were
big purveyors of info when I needed it*  I had telephone conversations with both of them 
back in those days, and they both helped me & my business partner alot with working 
knowledge of those pistols*  It's just hard to believe that both of them are gone now!
This was in the '74-'75 time frame*

[pbcaster45]

I believe they beefed up the cocking piece on the new guns so hopefully (fingers crossed) that won't be a problem. I'm not exactly shooting mine a lot (it kicks!) but time will tell!

This load locks the bolt back and functions perfectly - still need to chronograph it but it feels similar to the SBR Factory load minus the muzzle flash.

Bullet: Matt’s Bullets Saeco #431 (.430 255 Gr. Flat Nose Gas Check)
Powder: Hodgdon H-110 23.6 grs.
Primer: Federal 155
Case: Starline
OAL: 1.600

[pbcaster45]

I thought I'd posted all my favorite loads, but I guess I forgot! Here are the consolidated chronograph results from my 8.5-inch Classic Edition. I prefer the 240 grain bullets to the lighter 180 grain and 200 grain slugs - they generate more muzzle blast and recoil. All these loads functioned 100% (lots of lube helps!)

Bullet: Sierra 180 gr. JHC
Powder: Winchester 296 29.1 grs.
Primer: Winchester Large Pistol
Case: Starline
OAL: 1.608
Average Velocity: 1700 fps
ES: 24
SD: 9

Bullet: Sierra 180 gr. JHC
Powder: Winchester 296 30.1 grs.
Primer: Winchester Large Pistol
Case: Starline
OAL: 1.610
Average Velocity: 1766 fps
ES: 27
SD: 9

Bullet: Hornady 240 gr. XTP-HP
Powder: Winchester 296 23.5 grs.
Primer: Winchester Large Pistol
Case: Starline
OAL: 1.596
Average velocity: 1506 fps
ES: 29
SD: 10

Wow! If I was getting +1500 fps with the Hornady 240 gr. XTP-HP no telling what my cast load is doing!

[pbcaster45]

A couple of test groups with the cast bullet load.  Only shot 10 rounds - no malfunctions!
First five shots at 30 feet (offhand).



And another five in the same target.

[pbcaster45]

Here are the chronograph results for my cast bullet load.

Bullet: Matt’s Bullets Saeco #431 (.430 255 Gr. Flat Nose Gas Check)
Powder: Hodgdon H-110 23.5 grs.
Primer: Federal 155
Case: Starline
OAL: 1.600
Average Velocity: 1466 fps
ES: 52
SD: 16

[bradshaw]

Good to see this thread continue. Jerry Moran was scorching my ears about reintroduction of the Auto Mag. Moran worked Lee Jurras on trying to sort out problems, as Jurras wanted to see the pistol succeed. My own experience with the Auto Mag involved a TDE .44 with 6-1/2” barrel, and centered on the Sierra 240 Jacketed Hollow Cavity over 296/H110. Never saw commercial ammo, said to be made in Mexico. Made my brass from Twin Cities .308, probably some Lake City, also. Closest thing to reliability occurred around. 20-below ZERO Fahrenheit.

Sold it before Lee Jurras instigated what quickly evolved into Handgun Silhouette. Top shooters using the Auto Mag used ‘em as single shots. Delegates at the IHMSA 1978 International Championships passed a rule, Production repeaters had to be shot as repeaters. Already expensive, cantankerous, with fragility of parts, that further drove the Auto Mag from the silhouette firing line. Writers at the time kind of ignored the malfunctions in articles. As Ilived with a 6-1/2” M-29 on my hip, which never failed, was much easier to pack, and infinitely faster on the draw, the only hip iron which stood a chance against a proper revolver was another proper revolver.

Took one whitetail with the Auto Mag and Sierra 240 JHC, tracking in a cedar bog. Sight picture was vague with the smooth, un-serrated stainless steel ramp, even against the snowy, overcast woods, a situation guaranteed to accentuate doubts already harbored.

Refinements and improvements to resolve original weaknesses must sugar off to real reliability. Reporting such as here is a good thing. A recurrent theme, Lee Martin and I discuss the importance of confidence in your equipment to LIBERATE the MIND to MAKE a SHOT.
David Bradshaw

[pbcaster45]

The only problem I've had with mine was loading my ammo too light for proper function and not applying enough lubricant. I sure do miss the Grand Curmudgeon! I was looking at buying a Auto Mag from Lee back in 1980 but by the time I got over the price ($750!) they had been discontinued. This was when you could buy a new Colt Python for $350. The new front sight is very well serrated.

[bradshaw]

pbcaster45..... good photo of new front sight. Early Auto Mags seen by this shooter in silhouette had a front sight with smooth low angle ramp, like mine. I attributed my Auto Mag feeding problems to unresolved design and timing issues, not to a lack of lubrication or power. Jerry Moran is well aware of metallurgical issues with some of the early parts. He sounds confident changes have been made to current production which addressnknown weaknesses. This all has to be proven on the firing line, of course.

Israeli Military Industries wanted to put Jon Power’s Magmatic into production and tried to buy one from Power. IMI wasn’t interested in hiring Power. Jon told me that IMI offered $25,000 for one of his Magmatic .44 Magnums. Jon knew that to sell, he’d lose control. IMI ended ups buying the design of another Michigan machinist, which gun reached production as the Desert Eagle. Whereas the Auto Mag is a recoil operated semi-automatic, both Magmatic and Desert Eagle are gas operated semi-autos. The Jon Power Magmatic is compact, like a thick Colt Woodsman, compared to the bulk of the Auto Mag and bulkier-yet Desert Buffalo.

While I never shot an aerial target with an Auto Mag, Magmatic, or Desert Eagle, intuition tells me I’d prefer the Magmatic, Auto Mag, and Desert Eagle, in that order, with the Desert Eagle last. Not sure even Ronnie Wells could make a grip for that brick. To operate, the Desert Eagle bleeds a lot of gas just in front of the chamber. I was shocked to find the pistol doesn’t boost velocity over a same-length revolver barrel, which tells me it bleeds a lot of pressure to operate. On the plus side, and the Desert Buffalo is a plus-size pistol, it accommodates the .50 Action Express. Briefly held an another behemoth auto, the Wildey. Having not fired it, I can only report its somewhat space gun appearance.

Kent Lamont and Lee Jurras put at lot of effort trying to bring up reliability of the Auto Mag. Accuracy was never the issue; that leaves reliability and durability. Now, an interested party with manufacturing capability appears ready to re-make the Auto Mag that never was.
David Bradshaw