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Post by x101airborne on Oct 11, 2021 7:29:05 GMT -5
I was talking on the phone the other day with a buddy and remembered a Taurus Tracker I had about 20 years ago. I had just become a LEO and with a 4 day on and 4 day off schedule, I spent lots of time on the ranch. Being single, I had enough money and time to do a "Gun of the Month" deal with the local gunshop. I told them I wanted something rather powerful but small enough to pack a lot. Out comes a Taurus Tracker 4 inch 5 shot 44 Magnum (ported barrel) with rubber grips. Made a deal for the weapon and an old Smith and Wesson holster. After cutting off the bottom of the holster for the barrel to stick through and riveting the welt, even the thumb break worked surprisingly well.
I range qualified with it for the PD and carried it even as an off-duty revolver. I shot that weapon a LOT but always at the range and with muffs on. It was surprisingly accurate but shot loose about every 75 to 100 rounds. I really didn't mind it because after however many rounds through it I would reload all my spent brass while the weapon was away.
I think after about the fourth time sending it back to be rebuilt, I was carrying it as a backup to my heavy barrel Remington Sendero 25-06 coyote hunting. Saw a good size sow at a little over 300 yards and hit her in the neck with the 25-06. She dropped immediately from the 87 grain hollow point. By the time I got over there I found blood, but not the hog. A quick glance and I found her stumbling through the brush and gave her a quartering away shot with the 44 Mag Taurus. Instant drop but it felt like I had ice picks in both ears. The porting on that barrel gave me a headache for 4 days even with Excedrine.
I fired it more at the range just for practice but I never forgot my muffs. When I sent it back the 5th time Taurus just sent me a new weapon. I never did the paperwork on it, I just traded it in for store credit and bought a Smith and Wesson 66-6. I would have kept that weapon but the porting was just horrible and forget about cast bullets. They would gas cut going by the porting and muck the weapon right up. Kind of a gun I miss though. It definitely was a comfortable to carry piece. If I had it back today I would probably have the gun shop weld the porting shut.
Anyhow, no real point to the story. Just one of those "Days gone by" things I think about some times. Yall got any stories to share?
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Post by contender on Oct 11, 2021 8:22:27 GMT -5
Good story.
Where should I begin on guns I've owned & traded or sold. Let's just say that MANY years ago,, I decided I hated getting a sickness called "seller remorse" so I basically quit trading or selling any gun I got that I wanted. (I don't count the guns I've won or didn't need that were too good of a price to pass up on. Getting or winning a gun that doesn't fit my desires or needs will get a trip down the road.)
But I will share one story.
I had a S&W M-27 with a 8-3/8" bbl, that I'd gotten from a Warrant Officer in my unit. He'd had an action job done on it,, and that thing was a laser when shooting. I made a bet on shooting it once,, that,, shall we say,, was a little bit outside the full legal definitions. It was deer season,, and it was legal to use a handgun,, and all,, but my method of "hunting" wasn't fully legal. (This was in the 1970's,, so the statue of limitations has expired & I'm older & wiser now.) Let's just say it involved a Huey helicopter too. Well, the bet was a case of beer & I won the bet. About 5-6 years later,, I sold that M-27 to a very good friend. He never shot it. About a year after I sold it,, I asked him to bring it over,, and was looking at it. I found a cracked chamber wall. I didn't say anything at first,, and asked him if he had shot it at all. Again,, the reply was "no." I darn near demanded he sell it back to me,, AND explained why. He didn't want to sell, so I paid for it's return & repair at S&W. He got married & moved out of the area about 30 years ago. His wife,, wasn't a type that had anything before their marriage. But she would show off his antiques & collectable stuff as "her" stuff. After they moved,, he kinda got away from all of his friends here. He devoted his time, money & life to her & her 2 kids & the kid they had. I accidentally found out he passed away a few years ago,, about 3 months after the fact. Not one of his old friends or such from around here knew it at all.
None of my inquiries to her about him were answered.
I often wonder what happened to his gun collection, and especially the M-27. RIP Garry.
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Post by 45MAN on Oct 11, 2021 14:51:31 GMT -5
THESE OLD STORIES ARE ALWAYS NEAT READ.
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Post by rjm52 on Oct 11, 2021 16:14:11 GMT -5
x...have the same gun in .41 Magnum and really enjoy it as a "Special". I figure if it is rated for Magnum rounds it will take a lot of 950-1100 fps load to loosen the gun up...but this is a carry gun not a range gun so it only gets a small amount of ammo through it a year.
Have a 4" stainless, 4" Titanium and a 6" Titanium. Just bid on a 2" stainless but doubt I'll get it. Have been bidding on 2" titanium models but they have been going well over a grand...and just not worth it to me...
Also have one in .45 ACP...great shooter.
Bob
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 24, 2021 15:09:25 GMT -5
Good story. Where should I begin on guns I've owned & traded or sold. Let's just say that MANY years ago,, I decided I hated getting a sickness called "seller remorse" so I basically quit trading or selling any gun I got that I wanted. (I don't count the guns I've won or didn't need that were too good of a price to pass up on. Getting or winning a gun that doesn't fit my desires or needs will get a trip down the road.) But I will share one story. I had a S&W M-27 with a 8-3/8" bbl, that I'd gotten from a Warrant Officer in my unit. He'd had an action job done on it,, and that thing was a laser when shooting. I made a bet on shooting it once,, that,, shall we say,, was a little bit outside the full legal definitions. It was deer season,, and it was legal to use a handgun,, and all,, but my method of "hunting" wasn't fully legal. (This was in the 1970's,, so the statue of limitations has expired & I'm older & wiser now.) Let's just say it involved a Huey helicopter too. Well, the bet was a case of beer & I won the bet. About 5-6 years later,, I sold that M-27 to a very good friend. He never shot it. About a year after I sold it,, I asked him to bring it over,, and was looking at it. I found a cracked chamber wall. I didn't say anything at first,, and asked him if he had shot it at all. Again,, the reply was "no." I darn near demanded he sell it back to me,, AND explained why. He didn't want to sell, so I paid for it's return & repair at S&W. He got married & moved out of the area about 30 years ago. His wife,, wasn't a type that had anything before their marriage. But she would show off his antiques & collectable stuff as "her" stuff. After they moved,, he kinda got away from all of his friends here. He devoted his time, money & life to her & her 2 kids & the kid they had. I accidentally found out he passed away a few years ago,, about 3 months after the fact. Not one of his old friends or such from around here knew it at all. None of my inquiries to her about him were answered. I often wonder what happened to his gun collection, and especially the M-27. RIP Garry. ***** Tyrone.... and I have to wonder how your M-27 cylinder got cracked and the chamber wasn’t sprung. ? David Bradshaw |
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Post by contender on Oct 25, 2021 6:25:21 GMT -5
Good question David. I have wondered that as well. ESPECIALLY since I was one to max load stuff,, even back then. I had already seen a case of a sprung frame & damaged gun from "hot" loads in a J-framed S&W. In fact that M-27 had mostly a diet of either 38 spl W/C's or a moderate load of 158 grn JHP's that had proven accuracy,,! I have often thought it over,, & could only come up with a few theories, as to why it cracked. One,, an anomaly in the metal maybe? An anomaly combined with how the heat treatment went?
Or,, maybe the previous owner had used very hot loads,, and my loads eventually caused it to get the barely visible hairline crack. I was younger,,, no access to good people who knew more about such things. And didn't know how to ask S&W to see if they knew what might have happened.
I do know that M-27 was a super accurate handgun,, and I always missed it after I'd sold it. (Young & dumb,, I know.) And I know my buddy was 99% a collector & not a shooter. He had a few .22's he'd shoot, as well as a 1911,, and such., But he didn't handload,, or didn't shoot most of the guns he owned.
But the frame & action, & everything else was fine. I do remember looking it over when I found the crack,, to see if there were any signs of any other issues. That gun still shot very good after it came back. I didn't get to shoot it much until I gave it back to him.
It's always puzzled me. AND another reason I never promote loading "over book" w/o serious, documented & careful study of ALL things involved in such endeavors. I never promote it anybody who's not well educated in handloading.
A recent thread over on the CB forum about loading ammo "over book" information got me thinking on this, as well as a few other things I've seen over the decades. Safety trumps everything,, and accuracy trumps everything else after safety.
In fact,, a good example of my feelings of safety & caution surfaced a while back. I had read & heard about "deep seating" bullets & had never experimented with it at all. You (David) kept mentioning it often enough to where I started studying it even more. Especially where the .357 Maxi & the bullet y'all designed was concerned. That caliber, that bullet & all were my first foray into trying it. And it came about only after studying stuff I could find,, as well as my better knowledge of pressures & seating depths had evolved over the years. Plus,, what I could find on it,, while using a cast bullet,, always seemed to truly point to the fact that the pressures wouldn't be excessive. And lastly,, I trust your knowledge as well as a few others here,, enough to try it. But I was also cautious in my approach,, BECAUSE of some of the things I've seen in the past. And I've been pleasantly surprised,, as well as grateful for the internet & the access to people like you as well as the knowledge available here.
So, that M-27 will always haunt me as to why the chamber wall cracked,, all while still maintaining otherwise normal functioning & accuracy & smoothness.
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Post by bradshaw on Oct 25, 2021 9:01:03 GMT -5
Good question David. I have wondered that as well. ESPECIALLY since I was one to max load stuff,, even back then. I had already seen a case of a sprung frame & damaged gun from "hot" loads in a J-framed S&W. In fact that M-27 had mostly a diet of either 38 spl W/C's or a moderate load of 158 grn JHP's that had proven accuracy,,! I have often thought it over,, & could only come up with a few theories, as to why it cracked. One,, an anomaly in the metal maybe? An anomaly combined with how the heat treatment went? Or,, maybe the previous owner had used very hot loads,, and my loads eventually caused it to get the barely visible hairline crack. I was younger,,, no access to good people who knew more about such things. And didn't know how to ask S&W to see if they knew what might have happened. I do know that M-27 was a super accurate handgun,, and I always missed it after I'd sold it. (Young & dumb,, I know.) And I know my buddy was 99% a collector & not a shooter. He had a few .22's he'd shoot, as well as a 1911,, and such., But he didn't handload,, or didn't shoot most of the guns he owned. But the frame & action, & everything else was fine. I do remember looking it over when I found the crack,, to see if there were any signs of any other issues. That gun still shot very good after it came back. I didn't get to shoot it much until I gave it back to him. It's always puzzled me. AND another reason I never promote loading "over book" w/o serious, documented & careful study of ALL things involved in such endeavors. I never promote it anybody who's not well educated in handloading. A recent thread over on the CB forum about loading ammo "over book" information got me thinking on this, as well as a few other things I've seen over the decades. Safety trumps everything,, and accuracy trumps everything else after safety. In fact,, a good example of my feelings of safety & caution surfaced a while back. I had read & heard about "deep seating" bullets & had never experimented with it at all. You (David) kept mentioning it often enough to where I started studying it even more. Especially where the .357 Maxi & the bullet y'all designed was concerned. That caliber, that bullet & all were my first foray into trying it. And it came about only after studying stuff I could find,, as well as my better knowledge of pressures & seating depths had evolved over the years. Plus,, what I could find on it,, while using a cast bullet,, always seemed to truly point to the fact that the pressures wouldn't be excessive. And lastly,, I trust your knowledge as well as a few others here,, enough to try it. But I was also cautious in my approach,, BECAUSE of some of the things I've seen in the past. And I've been pleasantly surprised,, as well as grateful for the internet & the access to people like you as well as the knowledge available here. So, that M-27 will always haunt me as to why the chamber wall cracked,, all while still maintaining otherwise normal functioning & accuracy & smoothness. ***** Tyrone.... your cracked M-27 cylinder caper may remain a mystery. The Model 29 andModel 19 proved S&W used excellent steel for mag cylinders, with excellent heat treatment. May be possible the cylinder got botched during heat treatment, over-hardened; but this is speculation not assertion. After shooting the SRM prototype .357 Maximums in Croydon, New Hampshire, the guns would be returned to Southport to be checked out. Bill, Jr., returned from one such trip with the guns brandishing new cylinders. I had learned to strip the guns of my trigger jobs before Bill took ‘em back to Southport, lest my trigger jobs end up in Southport trash or someone else’s pocket, I likewise checked the guns over before firing resumed. The new cylinders each exhibited minute rotational cracks on the front face, cracks which neither extended to chamber walls or the base pin hole. Federal has sent me experimental Maximum ammo loaded with the Sierra .357 170 FMJ, a bullet campaigned hard by Jerry Moran in his 6” Python. Immediately evident upon firing the experiment Federal ammo, that stuff was HOT! The thinner-than-the-tip-of-a-hair cracks grew, every so slightly, enough to admit the tip of a sharp hair. There may have been some PRIMER BLANKING. The Federal nickel plated brass extracted stiffly. On a Sunday afternoon, Bill, Jr., and I drove up to the house of Newport plant manager Stan Terhune. Stan sat his patio and we had a rather muted visit. Stan Terhune, a metallurgist, would not speculate as to origin of the cracks. Soon after I returned home I got a call from Hugh Reed at Federal. “David, I want to tell you before you shoot that ammo....” “It’s hot.” “Yeah,” says Reed, “I figured you might have got into it. It’s pretty warm: 77,000 psi.” I described the cylinder cracks to Hugh Reed. Each of us rather amazed at how well the cracked cylinders held the pressure. Nevertheless, Tyrone, when you see something like that, the message is to stop before all Hell breaks loose. David Bradshaw |
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Post by contender on Oct 26, 2021 9:16:38 GMT -5
"Nevertheless, Tyrone, when you see something like that, the message is to stop before all Hell breaks loose."
True statement!
ANd yes,, I do believe it will always be a mystery to me. I have no idea where that gun is now,, and of course the bad cylinder is long gone.
It was interesting to me when I found it. It was a very, very fine line crack, about 3/4 of the length of the chamber. Kinda hard to see, until it was discovered & studied. I even remember thinking HARD about the ammo I'd used in it to see if I had ever used any hot stuff. And I recall using the previous owners info on using Bullseye & 148 grn WC bullets for paper punching. Anytime I used that loading,, I'd double check cases, prior to seating bullets,, then add a piece of fiberfill to keep the powder level against the primer,, then seat a bullet. And when I worked up a load using .357 mag stuff,, I'd always work up to accuracy,, and never, ever exceed my manuals.
Over the years,, I just figured it was one of those oddities in metallurgy that couldn't be explained w/o serious equipment that can test such things. PURELY my assumption.
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