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Post by bushog on May 15, 2021 17:40:25 GMT -5
The bolt/cylinder catch isn't being pushed back far enough to allow the action to function. This means the hammer won't come back.
If I pull the thumb piece backward it works. If I depress the bolt manually with a punch while the cylinder is open it works.
Seems like the little "nub" in center of the ejector isn't long enough.
The gun has been working properly and now it is locked up.
Seems this should be something obvious but I'm not getting it.
Thanks for any suggestions/help with this!
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Post by flyingzebra on May 15, 2021 18:16:49 GMT -5
Take the grips off and put it in the toaster oven at 175ish for a little bit
Try it again and see if it works
Might have some munged up grease or oil in there
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Post by bushog on May 15, 2021 18:23:57 GMT -5
Take the grips off and put it in the toaster oven at 175ish for a little bit Try it again and see if it works Might have some munged up grease or oil in there That reminds me of my Uncle who used to repair tube guitar amplifiers. ‘“First thing you do id drop it”. Will have to remember this one. I love this place! BTW, you were right. I tool the ejector completely apart and cleaned in mineral spirits, a little light oil and reassembled. Works like a champ. Should have tried this before I asked. S&W guts = black box. |
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Post by flyingzebra on May 15, 2021 18:46:23 GMT -5
I've done that toaster oven trick with old rifle scopes that were suffering hard or stuck adjustment knobs.
Not much heat, but enough to get the goop flowing.
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Post by bradshaw on May 15, 2021 21:26:33 GMT -5
The bolt/cylinder catch isn't being pushed back far enough to allow the action to function. This means the hammer won't come back. If I pull the thumb piece backward it works. If I depress the bolt manually with a punch while the cylinder is open it works. Seems like the little "nub" in center of the ejector isn't long enough. The gun has been working properly and now it is locked up. Seems this should be something obvious but I'm not getting it. Thanks for any suggestions/help with this! ***** bushog.... reckon I completely misread your lingo, since, after John chimed in, you cured the disease. I read your description as: the STOP failed to retract enough to allow CARRY-UP (cylinder rotation). As the S&W cylinder stop wears, it retracts from the stop notch in the cylinder later & later, and retraction becomes more shallow. Eventually, the stop retracts and pops up before the HAND starts cylinder rotation. When the hand disengages & re-engages before cylinder movement, it locks the trigger. Likewise, a short hand can have the same effect. David Bradshaw |
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Post by bushog on May 15, 2021 23:07:38 GMT -5
The bolt/cylinder catch isn't being pushed back far enough to allow the action to function. This means the hammer won't come back. If I pull the thumb piece backward it works. If I depress the bolt manually with a punch while the cylinder is open it works. Seems like the little "nub" in center of the ejector isn't long enough. The gun has been working properly and now it is locked up. Seems this should be something obvious but I'm not getting it. Thanks for any suggestions/help with this! ***** bush.... reckon I completely misread your lingo, since, after John chimed in, you cured the disease. I read your description as: the STOP failed to retract enough to allow CARRY-UP (cylinder rotation). As the S&W cylinder stop wears, it retracts from the stop notch in the cylinder later & later, and retraction becomes more shallow. Eventually, the stop retracts and pops up before the HAND starts cylinder rotation. When the hand disengages & re-engages before cylinder movement, it locks the trigger. Likewise, a short hand can have the same effect. David Bradshaw Thanks David! I even referred to a schematic to try and get the part names right. |
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Post by bradshaw on May 16, 2021 5:51:58 GMT -5
bushog.... nomenclature is a lingo all its own, with manufacturers themselves stamping their own coinage. Thus:
Part which locks cylinder
* Bolt----Colt
* Stop----S&W
* Cylinder latch----Ruger
Part which rotates cylinder
* Pawl----Colt, Ruger
* Hand----S&W
Hinge for a swing-out cylinder
* Crane----Colt, Ruger
* Yoke----S&W
The double action sear which attaches to the hammer of a DA revolver is often referred to around work benches as the "fly” or double action fly. Everyone knows where the full cock notch, or “notch,” on a hammer is. Confusion starts when someone refers to the full cock dog----the shelf which bears against the sear (trigger) to hold the hammer at cock----as “the notch.”
Terminology is a soup. Extractor and ejector may refer to the same part, such as the “star” on a swing-out or tip-open revolver. The rod on Peacemaker-style single action is more properly called an extractor when it partially removes a cartridge or case. And called an ejector when it fully removes cartridge or case. Function is specified on a break-open shotgun: an extractor which kicks shells clear is called an ejector. An extractor which provides only limited extraction never stops being an extractor.
When nomenclature or description is muddy, the reader must try to deduce what is happening from what isn’t happening. The goal of communication is understanding.
David Bradshaw
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Post by 45MAN on May 16, 2021 6:56:18 GMT -5
MAYBE THAT BUSHOG's ISSUE IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF S&W's GETTING GUMMED UP WHEN SPRAYED DOWN WITH THE WRONG LUBRICANT, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE REVOLVER IS PUT UP FOR A WHILE. I STAY AWAY FROM OILS, CURRENTLY USE BALLISTOL. NOT SURE WHAT IS BEST, JUST KNOW THERE CAN BE A "GUM UP" PROBLEM.
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Post by bradshaw on May 16, 2021 8:47:03 GMT -5
MAYBE THAT BUSHOG's ISSUE IS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF S&W's GETTING GUMMED UP WHEN SPRAYED DOWN WITH THE WRONG LUBRICANT, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE REVOLVER IS PUT UP FOR A WHILE. I STAY AWAY FROM OILS, CURRENTLY USE BALLISTOL. NOT SURE WHAT IS BEST, JUST KNOW THERE CAN BE A "GUM UP" PROBLEM. ***** Rey.... in all my life I’ve never had a Smith & Wesson quit. Switched to motor oil and chassis grease ages ago, on the theory serious engineering comes into play. I’m satisfied good automotive lubes are superior, while hugely economical for guns. Made the switch to SYNTHETIC some years back, as it doesn’t react to hard cold. Some mechanisms are more sensitive to hard cold, .22s with low recoil energy, and auto pistols with long slide-to-frame tracks (such as SIG/Sauer. Moly-disulfide grease slightly slowed the Les Baer 1911, synthetic motor oil barely noticeable, at 25 below ZERO----with gun left out for hours. Bringing the Les Baer indoors to sweat profusely by the wood stove, then out again to freeze before shooting did not frustrate function----no stoppages with variety of lead and jacketed ammo. The SIG/Sauer P220 .45 ACP and P226 9mm Luger were more sensitive. Regular petroleum motor oil stiffens in hard cold, notably slowing a 1911, with occasional short-stroke. The didn’t recoil for enough to cycle the SIG/Sauer P220 and P226. The Ruger MK II .22 auto pistols and 10/22 carbines failed to cycle with frozen petroleum oil, although the MK II started to cycle after a few shots. A pair of 10/22’s never warmed up. Bolt action rifles with heavy, sticky petroleum motor oil are prone to misfire. The Winchester Model 70 more prone to misfire than the Remington Model 700. The Mauser 98 and the old SAKO L61 each sport a long, heavy FIRING PIN FALL, which puts them in a league of their own. .22s and other sensitive mechanisms work with Brownells Dry-Slide, moly-disulphide powder in an evaporative medium. Moisture on bare steel can freeze two parts together; leastwise until on or two shots are fired. Oxidized oilWD-40 oxidizes to form a protective film. I’ve never considered WD-40 a lubricant. (Probably should try it on car locks and padlocks, two notoriously freeze-sensitive mechanisms with lousy moisture resistance.) Two other oils which impressed me from childhood as gummy, 3-in-1 Oil and Singer Sewing Machine Oil. Were I a cannibal, I might use ‘em for salad dressing; but, said oils won’t find my guns. David Bradshaw |
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Post by contender on May 16, 2021 10:31:48 GMT -5
Glad to see you got the problem figured out & fixed easily.
I must admit,, I read the thread title, and thought; "S&W broke,, who's gonna buy that company?" Didn't think it was about a single handgun! LOL!
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Post by jayhawker on May 16, 2021 21:55:07 GMT -5
David,
50 years ago we used STP in our Fast Draw guns, worked well.
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Post by matt56 on May 17, 2021 21:18:56 GMT -5
It's amazing how these things get gummed up sometimes enough to cause an issue. My 19-6 sat in the safe for maybe a year and I pulled it out one day to find the cylinder release frozen in place. Probably never been opened up since it was assembled in the late 80s.
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Post by 45MAN on May 18, 2021 6:13:53 GMT -5
It's amazing how these things get gummed up sometimes enough to cause an issue. My 19-6 sat in the safe for maybe a year and I pulled it out one day to find the cylinder release frozen in place. Probably never been opened up since it was assembled in the late 80s. THAT IS A PROBLEM I HAVE OFTEN ENCOUNTERED WITH SMITHS THAT HAVE BEEN STORED FOR A WHILE. I ALWAYS USED A BUNCH OF DEGREASER/DEGUNKER BUT MAY TRY FLYING ZEBRA's HEAT TRICK NEXT TIME. WONDER IF A HAIR DRYER WOULD GET THE GUMMY STUFF FLOWING? |
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Post by flyingzebra on May 18, 2021 15:04:56 GMT -5
Hair dryer should do the trick.
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