Contenders / Encores... attempting to avoid any BATF issues
Feb 11, 2021 10:52:53 GMT -5
magnumwheelman likes this
Post by contender on Feb 11, 2021 10:52:53 GMT -5
"As made clear right here by some old timers. the Contender’s unique versatility isn’t a problem, long as a buttstock ain’t put on a sub-16” barrel.'
I adhere to this. ^^^^
I own a few Contender frames,, and a pair of Encore frames.
I have for many, many years.
And, by only putting a shorter barrel on a frame,, with a pistol grip,, OR,, by only putting a rifle barrel on one with a buttstock,, I've never worried about HOW it was originally sold by an FFL.
On the 4473's,, the FFL is required to list the gun as they receive it. Either a rifle, a handgun, or a frame.
But,, once the frame leaves the FFL,, and then, later on may be sold,, how will the new owner know how it was originally sold as? We all here try hard to obey the law,, and NONE of us want to get into trouble. And with all the history of the issues, lawsuits by T/C & all,, there is a ton of legaleze stuff for lawyers to interpret. But,, as noted above,, the actual prosecution by any legal official,,, will have a HARD time proving a case,,, if the gun is found in it's correct form (pistol or rifle configuration,) no matter how it was originally sold.
The OP was asking about how to know what configuration the original frames were listed as,, and sadly,, unless you are the ATF,, you really can't get that data easily.
Problems only arise if a person has one put together in an incorrect configuration.
In over 35 years of owning & using Contenders,, having been checked by game wardens,, or other LEO's,, NONE have ever questioned my frame designation. They either see a handgun, (most often,) or a rifle.
And if you look on the butt of a T/C stock,, you will see the warning about putting that stock on a short barreled gun too.
Let's look at it from another angle.
You are cruising a gun show. A guy is walking around with a gun,, that strikes your fancy. You make a deal,, and you swap personal info & you go home smiling.
You have ZERO knowledge of that gun's history. You MAY have some,, from whatever the seller told you. But no real proof of any of it. (Remember,, buy the gun not the story,, right?)
A year passes,, and you are driving from the range & go through a traffic stop. A zealous LEO asks about your guns,, and runs the make & serial number.
The gun is listed as a stolen gun. You are asked to explain HOW you got the gun. But,, due to your info,, you are able to point the LEO's to the guy you bought it from. You may lose the gun,, and you'll have to try & recover you $$ loss from the seller. But as for prosecution,, you have NO WAY to verify the history of that firearm.
You won't be charged with a crime.
So, using that as a general guide. If you inherit or otherwise get a used T/C frame of any flavor,, you can point to where it came from, and you are not going to be charged with a crime,,, BECAUSE you did all the legal stuff when you got it.
The T/C Contenders have always been a point of legal discussion,, because a FEW folks enjoy getting into the "what if" discussions. And of course,, there are the few law breaking types who will do the what if's just because they want to.
Unless a crime is committed with a gun,,, and as long as the gun is in a proper configuration questions about it's "original listing on the 4473" will be a moot point.
I adhere to this. ^^^^
I own a few Contender frames,, and a pair of Encore frames.
I have for many, many years.
And, by only putting a shorter barrel on a frame,, with a pistol grip,, OR,, by only putting a rifle barrel on one with a buttstock,, I've never worried about HOW it was originally sold by an FFL.
On the 4473's,, the FFL is required to list the gun as they receive it. Either a rifle, a handgun, or a frame.
But,, once the frame leaves the FFL,, and then, later on may be sold,, how will the new owner know how it was originally sold as? We all here try hard to obey the law,, and NONE of us want to get into trouble. And with all the history of the issues, lawsuits by T/C & all,, there is a ton of legaleze stuff for lawyers to interpret. But,, as noted above,, the actual prosecution by any legal official,,, will have a HARD time proving a case,,, if the gun is found in it's correct form (pistol or rifle configuration,) no matter how it was originally sold.
The OP was asking about how to know what configuration the original frames were listed as,, and sadly,, unless you are the ATF,, you really can't get that data easily.
Problems only arise if a person has one put together in an incorrect configuration.
In over 35 years of owning & using Contenders,, having been checked by game wardens,, or other LEO's,, NONE have ever questioned my frame designation. They either see a handgun, (most often,) or a rifle.
And if you look on the butt of a T/C stock,, you will see the warning about putting that stock on a short barreled gun too.
Let's look at it from another angle.
You are cruising a gun show. A guy is walking around with a gun,, that strikes your fancy. You make a deal,, and you swap personal info & you go home smiling.
You have ZERO knowledge of that gun's history. You MAY have some,, from whatever the seller told you. But no real proof of any of it. (Remember,, buy the gun not the story,, right?)
A year passes,, and you are driving from the range & go through a traffic stop. A zealous LEO asks about your guns,, and runs the make & serial number.
The gun is listed as a stolen gun. You are asked to explain HOW you got the gun. But,, due to your info,, you are able to point the LEO's to the guy you bought it from. You may lose the gun,, and you'll have to try & recover you $$ loss from the seller. But as for prosecution,, you have NO WAY to verify the history of that firearm.
You won't be charged with a crime.
So, using that as a general guide. If you inherit or otherwise get a used T/C frame of any flavor,, you can point to where it came from, and you are not going to be charged with a crime,,, BECAUSE you did all the legal stuff when you got it.
The T/C Contenders have always been a point of legal discussion,, because a FEW folks enjoy getting into the "what if" discussions. And of course,, there are the few law breaking types who will do the what if's just because they want to.
Unless a crime is committed with a gun,,, and as long as the gun is in a proper configuration questions about it's "original listing on the 4473" will be a moot point.