Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2021 17:04:16 GMT -5
There just is no perfect shot, animal or human. I was second or third on scene to yet another cop shooting. Male officer stopped what turned out to be a bad guy wanted for murder. It went kinetic almost immediately. Bad guy was huge, got cops duty weapon, cop literally on his knees begging. With his own gun in his face he heard a huge bang, thought he was dead. Turns out a female officer, who no one liked, pulled up, saw the scenario, got out a dropped the guy with a spine shot from at least 40 yds. Cop saved in an instant. You can look this one up; Cobb co. Ga, female officer arrests dirt bag in apt complex where she lives. A week later, same female cop off duty, pulls into parking space, steps out of car. Who's there? Dirt bag. Sticks stolen .357 cop gun against her chest and pulls trigger. Massive contact wound. Hole in her heart all the way out her back the size of a silver dollar. She draws off duty piece and caps the guy. Center mass. He lives. She holds on until back up arrives, loads her in patrol car and off to ER. She lives. Back on duty less then a year. Bad guy goes to prison. Two different shootings, similar weapons. Difference? Bad guy 1 gets severed spine, drops like a rock, can't pull trigger of gun in cops face. Back up officer blows his spine out his chest, fight over. Second shooting? NO idea how she took a 125gr Federal through her heart, at contact range, and stayed on her feet, holding suspect until back up arrived. Is a 357 a good social piece? Hell yeah! Is it 100% effective? Nope. Neither is a 41, 44 or 45. Man or animal, no difference. Miami shootout with Michael Platt and William Matix proved that. A .556 through the heart didn't stop Michael nor did a 357 through the heart of a heroic female Deputy. A goat?? Hell he don't know he's supposed to be dead. I've seen deer and men take solid hits and keep running. Seen a dude in Iraq with five AK rounds in his torso on his feet and talking. Pissed off more then hurt. Gun fights are like women. You think you know them until they're pissed off, then you see what you've got. Biggest bullet moving as fast as you can handle, placed as accurately as possible where it'll do the most damage, will at least buy you time to get to something bigger to shoot them with. Hopefully.
|
|
tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,966
|
Post by tj3006 on Jan 10, 2021 16:49:04 GMT -5
I think in Summery It is simply a matter of getting a good hit in a good spot. And you still need to hope for the best ! But bigger is not always going to make much difference. A .357 Bullet can poke a big hoe in a critter. And you can push them pretty fast without generating lots of recoil. Making it better for extended range time... ...tj
|
|
|
Post by bigbrowndog on Jan 10, 2021 17:10:23 GMT -5
The difference between small and big is the “allowance of error”. There is more allowance the bigger the caliber gets. Yes you still need a good bullet in the right spot, with a bigger caliber that spot is just a bit bigger, and your angle of entry is less critical..
Trapr
|
|
tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,966
|
Post by tj3006 on Jan 10, 2021 22:52:37 GMT -5
Agreed , but big enough is big enough. I never tried a .243 on deer but i took a buck with the .257 Roberts. Dropped him clean. My friend shot a small buck square in the boiler room, with a 300 Win and the Buck ran in a big circle with half his insides hanging And i mean 300 yards. He crossed in front of me ,I hit him square with my old savage ..308 And he ran another 100 yards before hi finally dropped. Now had I used a 45/70 i think it would have dropped him. But maybe not !...
|
|
|
Post by maxcactus on Jan 10, 2021 23:57:05 GMT -5
Whenever anyone would ask me about a first handgun purchase, I would always recommend mid-frame .357 D/A with 4" barrel & adjustable sights. I agree wholeheartedly and have recommended the same to dozens of friends and acquaintances. In my mind, the 4" .357 Magnum esp with adjustable sights is the Ford F-150 of the handgun world. It isn't the most capable pickup and isn't a regular passenger car, but it can do virtually everything within reason that a person needs from a handgun. My first handgun was a 4"Ruger GP-100 in 1988 for only $300. Loved that sixgun and foolishly sold it to a friend's father. I now own an S&W M66 4" and an M586 4". I definitely need to add a couple GP-100s to my safe. For most beginners, I think a 4-6" .357 will allow them to progress from novice with target level .38s to a serious, dedicated handgunner using .357s when desired. Ammo is versatile, common & relatively affordable. Once they become proficient with a .357, they're more capable of discerning their need for something more powerful. After reading John Linebaugh's articles on the .45 Colt in Ruger Blackhawk, my safe filled steadily with that caliber and it is my favorite. That said, I never feel unprepared when carrying a .357.
|
|
|
Post by rangersedge on Jan 11, 2021 8:33:15 GMT -5
Strangely enough, I have never owned a .357. Back in high school, a guy wanted to sell his revolver and let me try it out. Hot .357s in a snubby revolver was not conducive to accuracy or fun for a first centerfire handgun. After trying it out, I passed on the gun and have been unfairly biased against them since. Went with Glock 19 when they first came out for a defensive handgun and .44 mag for deer hunting one. Now I find myself considering a 357; but am still uncertain which niche it would fill that i don't already have filled..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2021 11:02:28 GMT -5
I don't want anyone to think that I don't like the 357 because of my LE experience and seeing them fail in real gunfights. I have two, a 2.5" M66 and a 4" M66 that are strategically located in the house for defensive purposes. But I also have three M19 Glocks, 2 M1911's, and 2 M4 variants placed as well. There are also 2 12ga where I can get to them quickly. Sound extreme? Well my house got lit up regularly in my old neighborhood, and when I remarried my wife was in Military Intelligence. One of a handful of people that got regular armed security assigned to her. Yeah you could say I was cautious. I really like the 357 and do use it for protection, as stated by tj3006 it's good hits in good spots and hope for the best! I definitely suggest them to new shooters, because they are reliable and effective, and very versatile. The most accurate 357 I ever owned was a SW 581, fixed sight L frame. That damn thing would clover leaf six rounds of whatever you fed it. Lost it in divorce when the wench pawned it and wouldn't tell me where so I could get it back. Man do I miss that thing!
|
|
|
Post by 45MAN on Jan 12, 2021 7:05:00 GMT -5
Strangely enough, I have never owned a .357.....Now I find myself considering a 357; but am still uncertain which niche it would fill that i don't already have filled.. THAT SAYS WHAT MAY BE WHY MY 357's RARELY GET ANY CARRY USE, I JUST HAVE LOT BETTER NICHE FILLERS - 45MAN
|
|
|
Post by AxeHandle on Jan 12, 2021 15:23:45 GMT -5
Work buddy, retired cop from 25 years ago. He says there are many more survivors of police shootings than there were back in his day. The difference? They all carried 357s 25 years ago...
|
|
|
Post by Stump Buster on Jan 12, 2021 19:18:21 GMT -5
Work buddy, retired cop from 25 years ago. He says there are many more survivors of police shootings than there were back in his day. The difference? They all carried 357s 25 years ago... ...and there have been a few medical advancements in GSW treatment we have learned both overseas and domestically. That said, I'd rather prefer not to get shot with a BB gun, let alone take my chances with a .357 Maggie.
|
|
|
Post by leftysixgun on Jan 12, 2021 19:56:21 GMT -5
So, with all the 357 carry talk.....I normally carry one of two of my 357s. What ammo is suggested based on firsthand experience? Personally I carry CCI Blazer 158gr HP. But in my opinion is not really an HP bullet, more like a soft point.
|
|
|
Post by leftysixgun on Jan 12, 2021 19:58:50 GMT -5
Ill just start a new thread....
|
|
|
Post by bigbrowndog on Jan 12, 2021 20:02:41 GMT -5
Work buddy, retired cop from 25 years ago. He says there are many more survivors of police shootings than there were back in his day. The difference? They all carried 357s 25 years ago... And more than likely far more could shoot as compared to today, that consider their handgun as just an extra 3 pounds they’re required to carry. Trapr
|
|
|
Post by ezekiel38 on Jan 14, 2021 0:07:20 GMT -5
9mm happened in the late 80s and marksmanship took a dive with 15 in the mag and one up the spout.
Early 90s many combat vets were retired from LE from the SE Asia years and "socially aware" depts were not hiring individuals with combat experience. Most cops who end up in shooting situations once or twice in their careers never acclimate to combat situations.
Most cops from the 80s on were middle class kids who saw themselves as social workers with a gun.
Individuals who had spent time in combat understood the dynamics and had the training and experience to help them survive; these seasoned individuals usually shot better under duress.
Social worker cops many had never been punched in the mouth; let alone had someone shoot at them with malicious intent. Their reaction, too often, was spray and pray.
A well aimed 357 ended many a criminal career, it took people who had a good working knowledge of the weapon and the cajones to stand and deliver that made that caliber excel.
I was a LEO firearms instructor for 21 years, attempted to help many who hadn't a clue as to survive deadly encounters as a LEO. We taught a lot of Officer Survival as well as how to run a handgun.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2021 18:04:59 GMT -5
I can't tell you how many rookies i saw that had no business being in that job. Yeah they wanted to help people, but when it came to lethal confrontations, they wanted no part of it. I remember in the academy, they had role players burst into the classroom unannounced, yelling, screaming, suddenly there's a shot and then they run out. Instructors have everyone write down what they saw, to show how difficult it can be to recall what you saw under stress. What an observing firearms instructor pointed out, is over half the class dove for cover when the shot rang out. The rest was split between those who turned towards the commotion / gunfire, and those who turned away when the shot rang out. He passed no judgement, just made the observation. I knew exactly what he was making everyone aware of.....
|
|