tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,965
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Post by tj3006 on Jan 8, 2021 7:46:05 GMT -5
I am Surprised to hear Mr. Bowens comments.
I Would prefer something bigger for really big deer. Say a 250 lb Mule deer. But With the right load I would shoot with confidence. And a good law enforcement round is an understatement.
There are plenty of situations, where a .357 beats a 9mm or even a .45. If i were in law enforcement and not in a big city a 4 inch .357 Makes sense to me.,,tj
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Post by wheelguns on Jan 8, 2021 8:27:00 GMT -5
I don’t see how a .358” hole ever beats a .452” hole.
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woody
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,116
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Post by woody on Jan 8, 2021 10:01:35 GMT -5
I don’t see how a .358” hole ever beats a .452” hole. Speed kills!!!! |
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Post by leftysixgun on Jan 8, 2021 13:30:27 GMT -5
I enjoy my 4” GP 100 and 4” S&W 686 SSR, but they are to big to carry. The two 357 carry guns that are usually with me is either my LCR or a 3” 686+
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tj3006
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,965
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Post by tj3006 on Jan 8, 2021 16:51:03 GMT -5
As far hole size, While it is certainly relevant, It is not the only factor. Flatter trajectory and the ability to shoot through doors and other obstacles , would enter into it.
I would not mind carrying a 4 inch GP 100 in a shoulder rig. Of course I ware a jacket 7 months out of the year.
My favorite carry Gun here in the city is a Light weight commander sized .45
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 17:16:38 GMT -5
NOT trying to start fireworks here, just giving my 2 cents worth. Retired LEO so I've seen a little bit in my 34 years that I can just give real world feedback. I've seen multiple shootings, and I've made mental notes about them all. I saw a guy when I was a rookie take a .41 mag damn near contact distance, through and through, center mass and never came off his feet. Another guy took multiple .45 ACP center mass and still stabbed a State Trooper. And no, the rounds weren't "spray and pray", I saw the dude being treated, center mass. Lived to go to prison. I could go on and on, I can't even count how many shootings I've investigated, and shook my head at some results. Like the dude that took all 8 .45's and while he is paralyzed, I spoke to him within an hour of the shooting. Still alive today. My take away from all this? Carry what you like, shoot it well, get the best hits you can, keep shooting until the bad guy stops. Oh and never think for a second a head shot will end every fight. Seen a dude take a shotgun blast to the face, almost half his head blown away, survived. Helped load him into the ambulance cause one of the EMT's was puking too much to treat the guy. Saw him a year later, walking around looking like an extra on The Walking Dead. Still remembered me. Unreal.
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Post by wheelguns on Jan 8, 2021 17:35:48 GMT -5
I don’t see how a .358” hole ever beats a .452” hole. My comments were made in a hunting context. I would not feel undergunned with a 357 in a social situation. |
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Post by leftysixgun on Jan 8, 2021 18:22:51 GMT -5
NOT trying to start fireworks here, just giving my 2 cents worth. Retired LEO so I've seen a little bit in my 34 years that I can just give real world feedback. I've seen multiple shootings, and I've made mental notes about them all. I saw a guy when I was a rookie take a .41 mag damn near contact distance, through and through, center mass and never came off his feet. Another guy took multiple .45 ACP center mass and still stabbed a State Trooper. And no, the rounds weren't "spray and pray", I saw the dude being treated, center mass. Lived to go to prison. I could go on and on, I can't even count how many shootings I've investigated, and shook my head at some results. Like the dude that took all 8 .45's and while he is paralyzed, I spoke to him within an hour of the shooting. Still alive today. My take away from all this? Carry what you like, shoot it well, get the best hits you can, keep shooting until the bad guy stops. Oh and never think for a second a head shot will end every fight. Seen a dude take a shotgun blast to the face, almost half his head blown away, survived. Helped load him into the ambulance cause one of the EMT's was puking too much to treat the guy. Saw him a year later, walking around looking like an extra on The Walking Dead. Still remembered me. Unreal. GOLLY DAY thats sounds unreal in what you have seen and/or investigated! Thank you for your public service! Id actually like to talk you some more. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 18:41:55 GMT -5
Any time, I try to stop in here regular and see what others are doing. My little Single Six cut down was my first foray into single actions and I'm really liking everyone's projects I see here. As far as real world handgun effectiveness, I'm no expert, I can only relate what I've seen. Been to more autopsies, shootings then I care to remember, but if the info helps someone looking to defend themselves I'm an open book.
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woody
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,116
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Post by woody on Jan 8, 2021 20:50:50 GMT -5
NOT trying to start fireworks here, just giving my 2 cents worth. Retired LEO so I've seen a little bit in my 34 years that I can just give real world feedback. I've seen multiple shootings, and I've made mental notes about them all. I saw a guy when I was a rookie take a .41 mag damn near contact distance, through and through, center mass and never came off his feet. Another guy took multiple .45 ACP center mass and still stabbed a State Trooper. And no, the rounds weren't "spray and pray", I saw the dude being treated, center mass. Lived to go to prison. I could go on and on, I can't even count how many shootings I've investigated, and shook my head at some results. Like the dude that took all 8 .45's and while he is paralyzed, I spoke to him within an hour of the shooting. Still alive today. My take away from all this? Carry what you like, shoot it well, get the best hits you can, keep shooting until the bad guy stops. Oh and never think for a second a head shot will end every fight. Seen a dude take a shotgun blast to the face, almost half his head blown away, survived. Helped load him into the ambulance cause one of the EMT's was puking too much to treat the guy. Saw him a year later, walking around looking like an extra on The Walking Dead. Still remembered me. Unreal. Good info. Thanks. |
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Post by ezekiel38 on Jan 8, 2021 22:23:37 GMT -5
As a retired LEO I concur with phatboi, bullets and people do not always react as originally imagined. Helped search for and arrest a guy who was shot in the back of the head with a 357 during a car chase, he was the wanted driver. When arrested an hour later a mile from the crash/crime scene, he had a bullet hole in the back of his head and when turning around to face me he had a bullet hole in the middle of his forehead that was an exit wound.
He was walkin and talkin an complaining of a severe headache. The shooter was a State Trooper firing from a police Vehicle doing 100mph+ and the weapon was a 4" 357 Hwy Patrolman Smith and Wesson.
Upon investigation, the bullet hit the rear trunk deck, of the stolen vehicle, penetrated the rear windscreen struck a headliner strut then angled down and entered the rear of the suspects' head, travel under the skin but didn't penetrate the skull and exited the suspect in the middle of his forehead then lodged in the rear view mirror that was attached to the windshield.
Fun case, lots of adrenalin flow, guns involved, a righteous arrest and a bad guy went back to the "Stony Lonesome". And no law suit!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2021 23:17:20 GMT -5
Sounds like a shooting I witnessed before I went into Law Enforcement; home on leave from the Army, sitting in a road side bar in central Florida with a buddy sipping a cold beer. Huge black dude sitting at the bar a few stools down from us. I mean 6'6" at least, and about 300 pounds. Brooding over his beer. In walks this black chic, struts up to big dude, she said something and he turned around. She points a little revolver right at this dude and starts shooting. I mean empties this thing into the dudes face. Turns and walks out. We peek up from behind the bar and dude is just sitting there. Walk over and give him the once over and realize he's alive.. Hit six times in the face with .22's. Bleeding, obviously in shock. He turns, guzzles his beer and drives himself to the hospital about 15 miles away. I heard he was back in the bar couple days later. He was so big, had huge jowls and cheeks, and about 3" of fat on his forehead. Doc dug all the lead out and sent him on his way. Man the sh*t I've seen with guns...
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Post by 375supermag on Jan 9, 2021 9:54:12 GMT -5
Hi...
I own a few revolvers in a few calibers.
My favorite .357Magnum is my S&W 686 Silhouette Model with an 8-3/8" barrel and adjustable sights front and rear.
Deadly accurate with cast bullets or Hornady HP/XTPs.
I have four Blackhawks in .357Magnum including a 3 screw that my son gave me this Christmas and an older used S&W Model 27 that I bought last summer.
Hope to get the new to me 3 screw out to the gun club this Sunday for it's first shooting session.
I have never shot a Dan Wesson .357Magnum but my Dan Wesson .357Maximum is a very accurate revolver
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Post by oddshooter on Jan 9, 2021 12:34:42 GMT -5
Hi... I own a few revolvers in a few calibers. My favorite .357Magnum is my S&W 686 Silhouette Model with an 8-3/8" barrel and adjustable sights front and rear. Deadly accurate with cast bullets or Hornady HP/XTPs. I have four Blackhawks in .357Magnum including a 3 screw that my son gave me this Christmas and an older used S&W Model 27 that I bought last summer. Hope to get the new to me 3 screw out to the gun club this Sunday for it's first shooting session. I have never shot a Dan Wesson .357Magnum but my Dan Wesson .357Maximum is a very accurate revolver Your taste in six shooters is superb. That 686 with 8 3/8" barrel must be awesome. What makes it a Silhouette? I have a 6" Pro model that my best bud put 5 out of 6 in the same hole offhand at 25 yards. I can't shoot like that, but my gun can. Tuned by S&W custom shop, it has the best trigger I've ever felt. Your Blackhawk and S&W 27 are just classic, great shooters using any criteria. Then you mentioned the DW SuperMag shooting 357 Maximum and you had my heart going pitter patter. Big Iron makes recoil behave like a gentle push. I can shoot those suckers all day and grin at the same time. Prescut Six pages now of posts sitting on Bowen's head. |
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 9, 2021 16:22:01 GMT -5
“Never think for a second a headshot will end every fight.”
----phatboi
*****
Got a call today to put the crimp on a big ball billy goat. Suppose the old goat was a good breeder but short on self control, In fact, downright dangerous. Not a customer you want in a headlock. One of his horns grew strange on his head, affording his brain extra protection. I couldn’t get close. Drew my SIG/Sauer P229 .357 Sig from a very nice Ernie Hill inside the belt scabbard. The Trijicon sights are well depleted, so the sight picture is black and the goat is black from the waterline up, with black horns. There is no graphic distinction between horn and hairy head, with one horn completely crazy. Under the circumstances I prefer a lung short. Lung shots are beautiful when you take out both. Blood returning to the heart gets pumped the the lungs for oxygen; instead of picking up oxygen, blood floods into the chest cavity. The brain goes into oxygen debt, loses consciousness. Animal dies.
A lung shot makes clean meat, as muscle is mostly drained of blood. A cervical spine or brain shot stops the heart, causing blood to stay in muscle, to seep, seep, seep when later you cut it. The owner wanted a brain shot so I obliged. At 15 feet the goat dropped, head on the snow. It then got up and trotted off. A second Federal 125 JHP aimed at the skull staggered the billy. He was already in the shade of the barn. Bright winter sun struck my sights at an angle, making for a terrible picture on a goat blending with shaded barn boards. Squeezed a third shot, 15 yards. The goat crashed. on its side. Quiet for a moment, then hing legs running... then kicking. Either shot #2 or #3 was aimed broadside to strike between eye & ear. Blood pump from a hole in the left side of the goats brainpan, indicating heart at work. The death dance went on again, goat never moving from where it lay. I waited for the Spirit of Life to leave its body, then cut its throat.
This old billy will be dog meat. He doesn’t stink the way some old billy’s do. Neck bones in a goat have incredibly convoluted joinery, which I suppose is designed to increase strength for head-ramming and to absorb side impact. Dressed off the critter, collected heart & liver for extra dog treats. Hoisted carcass. Hope to do an autopsy, but it won’t be today.
Would a .41, .44, or 45 do better? No way to tell. As noted by others on Singleactions, body shots and brain shots don’t all react the same. In my modest experience, a broadside, center-lung shot ranks very high on predictability----positive predictability. A high lung shot which does not cut the spine may set upon quite a chase. A low-lung which does not cut the heart and a low-lung shot which cuts the heart each ranks positive on the predictability scale. Lungs which cannot return oxygenated blood to the heart result in asphyxiation.
A high-brain shot may screw up the animal’s ability to play chess, without stopping heartbeat. A .22 fired in line with the ear canal usually drops an animal in silence. A shot on the line between eye and ear usually scrambles the whole beehive. A shot too high or too low ruins life without stopping it.
May have been 101airborne talks about when a pig takes a good lung shot, often it runs in a circle and keels over, no fuss. My experience as well.
David Bradshaw
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