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Post by Encore64 on Oct 20, 2020 13:14:48 GMT -5
reflex264.... now we’r gettin somewhere. Appreciate your response. Please continue. David Bradshaw I'll second this. Look forward to reading all the load data and ballistics. I've been so impressed with Longshot Powder in these size cases. Ballistics are truly out of proportion to capacity and pressure. I've stocked up on Longshot Powder and have contracted two Clements Revolvers just because if it's performance. A 41 Special 6" 3-Screw and Midframe Flattop 45 Auto Rim are next on my hit list. These mild mannered cartridges sure put a lot of pleasure back into shooting. |
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Post by reflex264 on Oct 20, 2020 14:11:15 GMT -5
reflex264.... now we’r gettin somewhere. Appreciate your response. Please continue. David Bradshaw Once again sorry about being vague but until I have some concrete numbers I am hesitant to post what I am working with. |
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Post by DiamondD on Oct 22, 2020 12:24:53 GMT -5
Keep it up, I’m very interested in the subject. I have a Glock 21 SF that I bought both a KKM ACP barrel and comp for as well as a .460 Rowland kit. I have a lot of factory .45 Super and .460 loads but haven’t even started shooting those yet let alone loading for them. I bought the Rowland kit first but I’m thinking I will probably get to the level I really want with the KKM barrel and Super loads.
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Post by reflex264 on Oct 22, 2020 12:40:59 GMT -5
Keep it up, I’m very interested in the subject. I have a Glock 21 SF that I bought both a KKM ACP barrel and comp for as well as a .460 Rowland kit. I have a lot of factory .45 Super and .460 loads but haven’t even started shooting those yet let alone loading for them. I bought the Rowland kit first but I’m thinking I will probably get to the level I really want with the KKM barrel and Super loads. Those real Rowland barrels are uncannily accurate. I tend to go middle of the road with my loads rather than load the guts out of something. Most of the time I use .45 Super data in the Rowland brass. It is plenty for deer and hogs and any gun is going to last longer if you go less than max. If you are using the 460 Rowland Company ammo I will be the first to tell you it is HOT. No way I would stick it in this revolver and don't really like the idea of it in my G21 conversion. When I get back in on this project I have some pressure tested Rowland data I will be glad to share that maxes out at 36,000psi instead of 40,000psi. |
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Post by DiamondD on Oct 22, 2020 12:53:16 GMT -5
Keep it up, I’m very interested in the subject. I have a Glock 21 SF that I bought both a KKM ACP barrel and comp for as well as a .460 Rowland kit. I have a lot of factory .45 Super and .460 loads but haven’t even started shooting those yet let alone loading for them. I bought the Rowland kit first but I’m thinking I will probably get to the level I really want with the KKM barrel and Super loads. Those real Rowland barrels are uncannily accurate. I tend to go middle of the road with my loads rather than load the guts out of something. Most of the time I use .45 Super data in the Rowland brass. It is plenty for deer and hogs and any gun is going to last longer if you go less than max. If you are using the 460 Rowland Company ammo I will be the first to tell you it is HOT. No way I would stick it in this revolver and don't really like the idea of it in my G21 conversion. When I get back in on this project I have some pressure tested Rowland data I will be glad to share that maxes out at 36,000psi instead of 40,000psi. Good to know. Looking at my box of factory loads I have Buffalo Bore, Rowland’s,, Underwoods and Wilson Combat s. I’m thinking that I read somewhere Tim Sundles saying that his .45 Super and .460 Rowland brass was the same except for length but I could be mistaken. I will in time probably use the Rowland barrel with mid range loads like you indicate so any help on starting load Developement would be appreciated. |
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Post by reflex264 on Oct 22, 2020 13:21:18 GMT -5
The super brass I sectioned was identical to Rowland brass. Both were noticeably thicker than the ACP Winchester and Federal brass. OAL on the super is the same as the Rowland with the same bullets loaded in each. The extra length is just to keep you from sticking a 40,000psi grenade in your gun. That is why super data works so well in Rowland cases. I didn't have any Starline 45ACP brass to split. It would be interesting to see if it is thick like the Starline Rowland and Super brass.
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Post by DiamondD on Oct 23, 2020 16:40:30 GMT -5
The super brass I sectioned was identical to Rowland brass. Both were noticeably thicker than the ACP Winchester and Federal brass. OAL on the super is the same as the Rowland with the same bullets loaded in each. The extra length is just to keep you from sticking a 40,000psi grenade in your gun. That is why super data works so well in Rowland cases. I didn't have any Starline 45ACP brass to split. It would be interesting to see if it is thick like the Starline Rowland and Super brass. I’m working off memory here and it’s been awhile since I looked into any of this, BUT I also thought I had read that Starline .45 Super and .45 ACP+P brass was identical other than headstamps. Edited to add: With my experiences with Starline brass it wouldn’t surprise me much that the .45 ACP brass was also identical except for head stamp. |
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chaos
.30 Stingray
Posts: 118
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Post by chaos on Oct 28, 2020 22:52:36 GMT -5
The super brass I sectioned was identical to Rowland brass. Both were noticeably thicker than the ACP Winchester and Federal brass. OAL on the super is the same as the Rowland with the same bullets loaded in each. The extra length is just to keep you from sticking a 40,000psi grenade in your gun. That is why super data works so well in Rowland cases. I didn't have any Starline 45ACP brass to split. It would be interesting to see if it is thick like the Starline Rowland and Super brass. I’m working off memory here and it’s been awhile since I looked into any of this, BUT I also thought I had read that Starline .45 Super and .45 ACP+P brass was identical other than headstamps. Edited to add: With my experiences with Starline brass it wouldn’t surprise me much that the .45 ACP brass was also identical except for head stamp. Hey Reflex, Are you the smae fella from the old levergunlovers website? If so, been aLong time. Lost track of most of the guys on there. Colby |
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Post by reflex264 on Oct 29, 2020 19:01:50 GMT -5
I’m working off memory here and it’s been awhile since I looked into any of this, BUT I also thought I had read that Starline .45 Super and .45 ACP+P brass was identical other than headstamps. Edited to add: With my experiences with Starline brass it wouldn’t surprise me much that the .45 ACP brass was also identical except for head stamp. Hey Reflex, Are you the smae fella from the old levergunlovers website? If so, been aLong time. Lost track of most of the guys on there. Colby Yes Sir. That I am! PM'd you. I stay in touch with several of the old bunch. |
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Post by Encore64 on Jun 4, 2022 19:26:05 GMT -5
Still wanting to hear more about this one...
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Post by reflex264 on Jun 6, 2022 8:22:30 GMT -5
Still wanting to hear more about this one... I got the gun done but been so busy with other projects that I haven't touched the loads lately. Since I posted that I did chronograph the revised 230XTP and 200 XTP. Those loads are both running in the neighborhood of 27,000 PSI. The 200 grain achieved 1322fps and the 230gr clocked 1206fps. Cosmetically 1200 and 1300. From a bench and sandbags at 30 yards they both shot 6 shot groups right at 1". I did test them in the ballistic buffalo. I had thought they might fragment at those velocities but both held together enough to use them on deer. I had thought that the cylinder gap might cause the velocity to fall off more than from the unvented autos but apparently the extra length of the cylinder acts like more barrel length. I am still not comfortable running the 40,000 PSI data in this gun. The good part is I don't think it's needed. Ballistically it falls in between the 45 Super and 460 Rowland and using the Rowland cases there is no danger of sticking a 25,000 to 30,000 PSI load in a 1911. The throats measure .4515" and the bore is exactly .452". It all just works. I backed off the 240XTP load and hunted with it. It chronographed 1317fps. I shot a doe at exactly 50 yards and it worked great. I am going to try to get back on it before deer season. I am really tickled over the whole package. Fermin's sight is a great addition. Accuracy is better than I had hoped for. As a side note the 45 Colt cylinder with the 360gr Oregon trail bullets is just as accurate. Using Brian Pierce's 300MP data it chronographed 1247fps. It makes this whole thing super versatile.   |
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Post by tdbarton on Jun 6, 2022 8:36:24 GMT -5
I enjoy the way you capture and convey data/information. Keep it up, I’ll keep reading.
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Post by Encore64 on Jun 6, 2022 9:11:39 GMT -5
I agree. Both these threads have been excellent reads and providing me with much needed information...
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Post by drdougrx on Jun 6, 2022 10:22:51 GMT -5
FWIW….I have a Colt Ser70 Gvt with a 5” barrel that has been fit with the Clark Custom 460 Rowland barrel kit.
I’ve had it for awhile and shot it yesterday. Using 230gr XTPs over 11.5gr of Longshot I get an average of 1260fpsaccording to my Oehler model 33. I also shoot 230gr xtreme HPs which are double plated and rated to 1500fps but at a much more “pleasant” velocity of 1050fps over 9.5gr of Longshot.
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Post by reflex264 on Jun 6, 2022 12:39:01 GMT -5
There is a happy median that exist between the 45 Super and 460 Rowland. I am not a fan of pushing the guts out of .460 Rowland guns. Turning down the wick just a bit makes them pleasant to shoot and it is obvious that the gun takes less of a beating. If I was going to shoot an elk with it I would run it pretty close to the top. On deer and hogs it just isn't necessary. A 230 XTP at 1260 fps will kill deer and hogs just fine.
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