45 Colt w/ Light Bullets

[9x23w]

Anyone play with 30,000 psi (Ruger, T/C) 45 Colt loads using coated/lead bullets around 200 gr? These are available but are mostly marked for the 45ACP.

Accurate has some load data but not for their best performing 45 Colt powders.

Any issues I should look for?

[buckelliott]

I think youre whizzing on the wrong fireplug..

That said, .45 ACP bullets work just fine in a .45 Colt.

Short, wide bullets tend to be unstable at the velocities you seem to have in mind.

.454" round balls will work at moderate pressure and velocity. Without strupping..

[x101airborne]

I am only thinking out loud here, I have not done what you are asking about so don't take my following statement as an endorsement of safety, but the 45 Winchester Magnum was designed to do something similar. Lighter weight bullets at high velocity. There is load data out there but it is sparse. If you want or need help with that, PM me.

[magnumwheelman]

my "frugal" buddy runs 185 grain bullets in his range 45 Colt loads, but he is not running the pressures up on those, being "frugal" he uses less powder... I'm more of a "traditional" guy & even though my CCW bullets is a Matt's wadcutter, it's still of the 250 grain nature... on most cartridges I prefer heavy bullets, & letting the "tool" do the work, rather than driving something lighter at hyper velocities...

[bradshaw]

Mar 31, 2020 1:06:31 GMT -5 9x23w said:

Anyone play with 30,000 psi (Ruger, T/C) 45 Colt loads using coated/lead bullets around 200 gr? These are available but are mostly marked for the 45ACP.

Accurate has some load data but not for their best performing 45 Colt powders.

Any issues I should look for?

*****

The first question should be WHAT FOR? I don’t “play with 30,000 psi” in a Ruger Blackhawk .45 Colt. All sorts of performance is available @ 25 to 27,000 psi, without riding the red line. 30,000 is an arbitrary number anyway, and conveniently forgets practical variance which we must attach to any number. Brass lasts longer, the gun is happier. For all the put-downs heaped on the .44 Magnum in attempts to elevate the .45 Colt----as if the .45 Colt could not exist without the .44 Mag----the cartridge deserves the independence with which it was born. The .45 Colt is the original magnum cartridge----in performance, if not name. The 1873 .45 Colt put the solid frame sixgun on a plane of its own. Always ever after, and I mean always, the TIP-OPEN and then the stronger SWING-OUT were shadowed by their own durability limitations while Colt’s big .45 kicked ass free & clear. The overriding limitation was and is size. For a given size the solid frame is stronger.

All these questions may be answered between the loading bench and the Firing Line. This applies in Technicolor to light bullets in the voluminous Colt case. Think EXPANSION RATIO. For shooting light bullets fast, a .357 Mag, .41 or .44 Mag flat slaughters the .45 Colt in efficiency. It takes pressure to get there. For the .45 Colt to match its magnum children in a drag race, powder must continue to expand behind the accelerating bullet. Otherwise, the acceleration curve slows as powder fails to keep up with expansion. If Ronnie Wells or Lee Martin care to put their hectic lives on hold for a few minutes, a better explanation may be offered.

The very high acceleration of a low-inertia bullet is met in target by abrupt deceleration.

I have cleanly taken whitetails and pigs with the Federal 44B .44 Mag 180 JHP. Far from my first choice for tracking, the bullet nevertheless explodes in lungs like Muhammad Ali’s left jab to a man’s head. An apt metaphor, as it was less the damage Ali did on the surface of a brute’s chin than the shockwave inside the skull.

So, I cannot supply a fine lightweight .45 Colt load. Conducting my own experiments, found myself on a dead end road.
David Bradshaw

[45MAN]

I DO NOT USE LIGHT BULLETS IN THE 45 COLT BUT MY THOUGHTS ARE, AND I MAY BE SAYING WHAT MESSR. BRADSHAW SAID IN A DIFFERENT WAY, 1) FAST & LIGHT CAST BULLETS MAY BE SERIOUSLY LACKING IN THE "BULLET INTEGRITY" DEPARTMENT UPON IMPACT; AND 2) IT IS HARD TO "PRESSURE UP" LIGHT BULLETS IN THAT BIG 45 COLT CASE USING TRADITIONAL "RUGER ONLY" LOADS' POWDERS.

IF YOU FIGURE OUT A LOAD RECIPE FOR ULTRAFAST 200gr PC'ed CAST BULLETS IN THE 45 COLT PLEASE SHARE IT WITH US.

[boolitdesigner]

Light bullets in a Ruger Blackhawk......Yep, been there. A very accurate lethal combination. I used a 7 1/2" Blackhawk with the Colt cylinder for that some 40 years ago. The Lyman 452460 out of wheelweights on top of a maximum load of Bullseye produced very tiny groups at 50 yards and groundhogs died by the hundreds. At that time it was no trouble to find groundhogs as we shot 6 or 7 each weekend day. There is little data out there on Bullseye in the 45 Colt at 25K pressure though. Factory jacketed aren't gonna do as well as cast. The cast bullets don't go to pieces or blow, they just go thru and do what solids always do. I wouldn't be afraid to hunt our deer here with it either. Work up slowly if you're going to use Bullseye!!!!!!!

[sixshot]

That big 45 Colt case has magnum written all over it & it just goes hand in hand with big bullets. I've used some 200 gr slugs (not many) and they work just fine but it's kind of like using a semi to pull a golf cart. Stick a real bullet in that 45, that's where it shines!

Dick

[9x23w]

First thanks to all who responded.  I know traditional 45 Colt users like long, heavy lead bullets.  Way back when that was the only way to get more power due to bullet technology and available powders.  I don't mean to offend anyone, but with today's technology I believe that is no longer true.

Light bullets seem to work fine in the 357/41/44 mags. I don't see any reason they wouldn't work as well in the 45, provided you select the correct powder. The 45 does run at a lower pressure than the other 3 magnums so H110/296 may not be the best choice.

For experimenting I think I'll start with the 225 grain bullet because Hodgdon has load data for this weight. Either of these:


(Missouri Bullet Company)


(Bayou Bullets)



I've had good luck with Missouri, but you can order smaller quantities from Bayou.

And this load data from Hodgdon:



Lil'Gun seems to work well but there have been warnings about its use in revolvers from Freedom Arms.  Probably not as issue at 45 Colt pressures.

Accurate seems has more powders that work well with high end 45 Colt loads:



Any of the 255 grain lead loads should be safe.

1600 ft/sec with a 225 or 1700 ft/sec with a 200 should be attainable (if my hand holds out) from my 7-1/2" Blackhawk.  

Stay tuned!

[bushog]

You've got it figured out!

[jeffer]

The beauty of the 45 Colt is big bullets at moderate speed/recoil/ wear n tear etc.

[squigz]

Mar 31, 2020 15:00:13 GMT -5 9x23w said:

First thanks to all who responded.  I know traditional 45 Colt users like long, heavy lead bullets.  Way back when that was the only way to get more power due to bullet technology and available powders.  I don't mean to offend anyone, but with today's technology I believe that is no longer true.

Light bullets seem to work fine in the 357/41/44 mags. I don't see any reason they wouldn't work as well in the 45, provided you select the correct powder. The 45 does run at a lower pressure than the other 3 magnums so H110/296 may not be the best choice.

For experimenting I think I'll start with the 225 grain bullet because Hodgdon has load data for this weight. Either of these:

I've had good luck with Missouri, but you can order smaller quantities from Bayou.

And this load data from Hodgdon:

Lil'Gun seems to work well but there have been warnings about its use in revolvers from Freedom Arms.  Probably not as issue at 45 Colt pressures.

Accurate seems has more powders that work well with high end 45 Colt loads:

Any of the 255 grain lead loads should be safe.

1600 ft/sec with a 225 or 1700 ft/sec with a 200 should be attainable (if my hand holds out) from my 7-1/2" Blackhawk.  

Stay tuned!

Be careful with the FTX Data and different bullets. I believe the FTX bullets have a longer shank, so they take up more powder space in the casing. That's why Hornady has their data split specifically for that bullet because it's completely different from their XTP line for example.

[bradshaw]

Accurate seems has more powders that work well with high end 45 Colt loads:



Any of the 255 grain lead loads should be safe.

1600 ft/sec with a 225 or 1700 ft/sec with a 200 should be attainable (if my hand holds out) from my 7-1/2" Blackhawk.  

Stay tuned!
----9x23w

*****

Am I seeing double, or are Accurate 4100 and Ramshot Enforcer the same powder?
David Bradshaw

[taffin]

Mar 31, 2020 15:00:13 GMT -5 9x23w said:

First thanks to all who responded.  I know traditional 45 Colt users like long, heavy lead bullets.  Way back when that was the only way to get more power due to bullet technology and available powders.  I don't mean to offend anyone, but with today's technology I believe that is no longer true.

Light bullets seem to work fine in the 357/41/44 mags. I don't see any reason they wouldn't work as well in the 45, provided you select the correct powder. The 45 does run at a lower pressure than the other 3 magnums so H110/296 may not be the best choice.

For experimenting I think I'll start with the 225 grain bullet because Hodgdon has load data for this weight. Either of these:


HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT HOW YOU ARE GOING TO CRIMP THESE BULLETS FOR USE IN .45 COLT?

[9x23w]

Mr. Taffin, I was just going to use a normal roll crimp in the single groove. Looks like that was a grease groove for a non-coated bullet. Should be OK if I crimp towards the back of the groove. Only one way to find out for sure.

Mr. Bradshaw, I believe you are correct. However here is some data from the 44 Magnum:



Very slight differences in some cases. The fact that some numbers are the same is a little scary.  Probably worth investigating before actually using this data for any loads.