Fire Dragon Dual Action Buffer Spring System

[nonpcnrarn]

I bought a Fire Dragon Dual Action Spring System to replace the stock recoil spring, guide rod and plug in my 5" Springfield Milspec 1911. It is a drop in system of a full length rod with a outer 16# spring and in the breech end of the rod is a hollow part of the rod holding a smaller spring that acts like a shock absorber for the last 1/8" of rearward slide travel. This last bit of travel is under extreme resistance, which should reduce battering. The part is supposed to be drop in which it is but the outer 16# spring is 6 7/8", 7/8" longer than the stock Springfield Milspec 16# spring which is 6" long. This makes compressing the spring and plug very difficult long enough to rotate the bushing back into place. When I rack the slide the last 1/8" of movement is extremely difficult to pull back to lock it into place with the action open. So I took it apart and used the shorter 16# Milspec spring. Rotating the bushing back into place with the spring and plug compressed is easier but I still have trouble with the last 1/8" of retracting the slide to lock the action open. From what I understand this is normal indicating that the increased resistance to prevent slide battering takes place in the last 1/8" of travel. I know springs can have the same weight rating while being of different lengths, number of coils and wire size, etc. Now my questions. Should one spring work as well as the other, since they are both 16# springs? Has anyone used this product before which I believe is similar to the Sprinco product that does the same thing? I have asked this question on 2 1911 forums and either got no answer or a sarcastic one saying I should have just used a higher rated recoil spring (18.5#). I could have done that but then you have increased slide velocity and battering when the slide moves forward into battery. Also, IIRC increasing recoil spring rate usually requires a stronger firing pin spring to keep inertia from causing the pin to move forward firing the next round. I believe Wolf sells them in pairs so you get both springs. Has anyone here used this or the Sprinco product? It is ironic that I have to come to site called singleactions.com for an answer. I would have though someone at one of the other 1911 forums could have answered the question. The reason I went with this device is that I purchased Bufalo Bore 230 gr +P truncated cone fmj ammo to carry in the gun. It is as close as I could get to the original 45 Colt load for the Colt Model P SA from a commercial manufacturer. Any experience or insight would be appreciated.

[cj3a]

Try posting this over at accurate reloading forums in the pistol section. There is a gunsmith that goes by chuck1911 that is willing to help out with problems.

[nonpcnrarn]

Dec 26, 2009 19:57:56 GMT -5 cj3a said:

Try posting this over at accurate reloading forums in the pistol section. There is a gunsmith that goes by chuck1911 that is willing to help out with problems.

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

[fltbed]

Everyone I know around here that bought a Sprinco for their USPSA race gun ended up removing it for two reasons. Reliability, and it made the jam much harder to clear due to the increased tension on the last bit of slide travel.

You can go with a heaver spring with +P loads (I recommend no higher than 20#) with few ill effects to you or the gun. Stay away from “progressive” springs on +P loads as they are designed to allow the gun to unlock easier and progress to a heaver spring weight.

What you want is for the slide and barrel to stay locked as long as possible and still function. The best way to do that is by installing an EGW oversized flat bottom firing pin stop. (The way JB originally designed it) By lowering the contact point of the firing pin stop on the hammer it increases the dwell time that the slide and barrel stay locked together and decreases the rearward slide velocity. That with a standard wound 16-20 pound recoil spring and you’ll be good to go. If you feel the rearward slide velocity is still to much a shok buff is a good way to go just watch how it wears and replace as needed. (I’ve seen guns eat shok buffs in as few as 200 rounds and I’ve seen others that can go over 5000 with no sign of wear on them. YMMV)

The only downside is it’s harder to rack the slide with the hammer down. (Which is why the Army ordered the change to the radius firing pin stop).

Hope this helps.

Jeff

PS I frequent most of the other 1911 forums (1911forum, Glock talk, XD talk, etc.) and don’t recall seeing your question. Sorry.

[nonpcnrarn]

Dec 27, 2009 10:27:28 GMT -5 fltbed said:

Everyone I know around here that bought a Sprinco for their USPSA race gun ended up removing it for two reasons. Reliability, and it made the jam much harder to clear due to the increased tension on the last bit of slide travel.

You can go with a heaver spring with +P loads (I recommend no higher than 20#) with few ill effects to you or the gun. Stay away from “progressive” springs on +P loads as they are designed to allow the gun to unlock easier and progress to a heaver spring weight.

What you want is for the slide and barrel to stay locked as long as possible and still function. The best way to do that is by installing an EGW oversized flat bottom firing pin stop. (The way JB originally designed it) By lowering the contact point of the firing pin stop on the hammer it increases the dwell time that the slide and barrel stay locked together and decreases the rearward slide velocity. That with a standard wound 16-20 pound recoil spring and you’ll be good to go. If you feel the rearward slide velocity is still to much a shok buff is a good way to go just watch how it wears and replace as needed. (I’ve seen guns eat shok buffs in as few as 200 rounds and I’ve seen others that can go over 5000 with no sign of wear on them. YMMV)

The only downside is it’s harder to rack the slide with the hammer down. (Which is why the Army ordered the change to the radius firing pin stop).

Hope this helps.

Jeff

PS I frequent most of the other 1911 forums (1911forum, Glock talk, XD talk, etc.) and don’t recall seeing your question. Sorry.

Thanks fltbed: I guess I should have asked before buying the device. Sounded like a good idea. I guess I'll use it with +P loads ie 230 truncated cone bullet at 950 fps. The nice thing is that it really is a drop in unit so it is no big deal to strip the gun down just like a 1911. If it turns out to be a jam-o-matic I will just chock it up to gadgetitis. Thanks for the response. I joined www.thefirearmsforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10 and forums.1911forum.com/ but no luck so far. Anyway, thanks again for your input.
PS: When you go to a higher recoil spring do you also use a stronger firing pin spring. IIRC the purpose is to prevent the firing pin from moving forward under inertia with the force of the increasing forward slide velocity. At what point in increasing the recoil spring do you increase the firing pin spring. I noticed Wolf sells them in sets of a recoil spring and a firing pin spring. Your thoughts?

[fltbed]

Dec 30, 2009 18:19:59 GMT -5 nonpcnrarn said:

PS: When you go to a higher recoil spring do you also use a stronger firing pin spring. IIRC the purpose is to prevent the firing pin from moving forward under inertia with the force of the increasing forward slide velocity. At what point in increasing the recoil spring do you increase the firing pin spring. I noticed Wolf sells them in sets of a recoil spring and a firing pin spring. Your thoughts?

No I don’t go heaver on the firing pin spring but I do replace it every 10,000-15,000 rounds.

Wolff provides a replacement firing pin spring with their recoil springs for liability reasons. However, you’ll do no harm by replacing the spring prematurely.

Hope this helps.

Jeff