Ruger No.1 357 Maximum.......

[cmh]

I remember in one of Mr Bradshaw’s post concerning the 357 Max he stated (if I remember right) that Bill Ruger had a No.1 built in 357 Maximum. Any particulars on that one Mr Bradshaw? Barrel length, twist, model.....etc? Thanks

[cmh]

Found your pics shooting it Mr Bradshaw...... I hope you don’t mind my re-posting them here? If you do I will remove them.

[bradshaw]

cmh..... a beautiful Ruger No. 1. Probably 22’ barrel with 1:16 twist, by Ruger’s barrel maker, George Wilson Company in Connecticut. One-of-a-kind. Had the Blackhawk .357 Maximum continued in production, Ruger may well have tested the water with a production version of this No. 1. A real sleeper.

Thank you for posting,
David Bradshaw

[Encore64]

Especially true after the introduction of Lil Gun powder. I won't use it in a revolver, but it is near magical in a rifle length barrel.

In my 24" TC 357 Maximum , I got 2400+ fps with a 158 grn and 2200+ fps with the 180 grn XTP.

[leftysixgun]

But then that would have knocked the 350 Legend from existing, lol
A No.1 in 357 Max would be a lot of fun!

[bradshaw]

Sept 15, 2019 6:51:19 GMT -5 leftysixgun said:

But then that would have knocked the 350 Legend from existing, lol
A No.1 in 357 Max would be a lot of fun!

*****

As the No. 1 extracts perfectly well with rimless, yet the .357 Maximum certainly shines in the compact Ruger. A 22” barrel in the falling block handles like a bolt action 16-inch. Bill and Bill, Jr., also discussed a Ruger No. 3 in .357 Maximum. I get along fine with the No.3 lever, which repeats the line of levers on various late 19th century single shots. The Farquartson lock on the No. 1 lever may be germaine to the spur on the trigger guard; it is redundant to holding the action shut in battery. The No. 1 stock is far better proportioned for scope use and nicer to the cheek in heavy recoil, as is the straight buttplate. Had the Blackhawk Maximum continued in production, I believe the No. 1 would have been next, with a better chance of reaching distribution than a Hawkeye .357 Maximum. A No. 3 single shot carbine might have been fourth in that picture, with lower cost a major incentive.

After shooting the revolvers for hours on end, the No. 1 is a siesta.
David Bradshaw

[Ken O'Neill]

Ruger also marketed a limited run of No. 1's in .357 Magnum. I frequently wish I'd bought one.

[awp101]

Sept 15, 2019 8:06:39 GMT -5 Ken O'Neill said:

Ruger also marketed a limited run of No. 1's in .357 Magnum. I frequently wish I'd bought one.

I'd like one as well, just not for the prices they bring.

I'm not sure which would be less expensive. Getting all of the cosmetic issues fixed on my .357 Martini Cadet and having it reamed to Max (assuming the multiple scope mount holes drilled on top of the barrel can be properly plugged and I don't have to rebarrel it) or buy a .357 No.1 and having it reamed for the Max.

[bradshaw]

Sept 15, 2019 8:29:46 GMT -5 awp101 said:

Sept 15, 2019 8:06:39 GMT -5 Ken O'Neill said:

Ruger also marketed a limited run of No. 1's in .357 Magnum. I frequently wish I'd bought one.

I'd like one as well, just not for the prices they bring.

I'm not sure which would be less expensive. Getting all of the cosmetic issues fixed on my .357 Martini Cadet and having it reamed to Max (assuming the multiple scope mount holes drilled on top of the barrel can be properly plugged and I don't have to rebarrel it) or buy a .357 No.1 and having it reamed for the Max.

*****

Before you hog out your Martini chamber, be sure the 1.605-inch Maximum case clears the block. Also, metallurgy & heat treatment may be insufficient to sleep through discharge of a full tilt .357 Maximum. A standard magnum gains 300 fps from revolver to rifle, sometimes much more, imparting real sting. The Maximum boosts velocity over the magnum in similar fashion.

Much as Bill Ruger admired and respected the best of the early single shots, he would not think of using one for Rocks & Dynamite.
David Bradshaw

[mobjack]

I know it has been mentioned somewhere (I just don't know where) but, are the twists the same in the 357 magnum & the max? If not would that be a problem re-chambering a magnum rifle?

Mobjack 

With more questions than answers.

edit: I found this information @ 357maximum.net/faq/

- What is the best twist rate for .357 Maximum?

Short answer: Time and experience suggest it does not make a bit of difference except in extreme applications such as when shooting extremely heavy bullets sub-sonic where a 1-10 twist would be in order.

At the same time we have found that in the case of a prototype .357 Maximum AR-15 16 1/2" barrel I chambered in a 1-10 twist blank, the very first group it fired with zero load development went into .530" center to center with, I don't recall now, either 140 gr. Hornady FTX or 158 gr. Hornady XTP bullets.

On the other hand, MGM's tests cited above gave 1/4" center to center groups from a 1-20 twist with bullets clear up to 225 gr!

The vast majority of .357 Maximum barrels made have been with 1-14 twist and give superlative accuracy.

For over 100 years, Remington has used 1-16 twist blanks for everything from .35 Remington to .350 Remington Magnum.

The H&R .357 Magnum barrels are 1-16 twist.

Chambered and crowned right, .357 Rem. Maximum is a superlatively accurate cartridge fired from anything from .355" groove diameter barrels through .359" and twist rates from 1-10 through at least 1-20 twist.

A coin toss is probably as good a decider as personal subjectivity.

[potatojudge]

Years ago I bought a No 3 that was originally a 22 Hornet but had been re-chambered to 223. It was useless with anything but lightweight bullets because of the twist rate, something like 1:14

I had JES rebore and re-chamber to 357 Max, $225 and two weeks round trip, and it shoots great. The ejector and tang safety give it a leg up on other single shot rifles; weight is it's drawback compared to the Low Wall.

For anybody interested in a No 1/3 Max, I would recommend the re-boring route starting with either a 22 Hornet or 223. The 357 Magnum guns tend to be more expensive to start with.

Based on encore64 and Bradshaw's suggestions, I keep two Max loads around- one using lil gun and the other 4227- for rifles and revolvers, respectively.

[Ken O'Neill]

The limited run of .357 Mag. No. 1's was about 1980

[bradshaw]

The Ruger Blackhawk.357 Maximum was made in Southport, Connecticut with George Wilson barrels buttoned with 8-grooves & 1:16-inch twist. After shooting prototype SRM-2 with a small pile of Rocks & Dynamite experimental ammunition, I suggested we scope it. Bill Ruger, Jr., took SRM-2 to Southport, where it was drilled & tapped for a Leupold Dual Dovetail base, and the Leupold 4x EER scope mounted. The only ammo with 180 and 200 grain bullets we were shooting were my handloads, as Remington persisted in supplying----at a snail’s pace, let us note----experimental ammo with 158 JHP only, some of hot enough to ring alarm bells that Bill Ruger, Jr., and I fired the rounds handheld in prototype sixguns.... as Remington rebuffed offers of a Ruger SRM for their lab work, confining their tests to remote-fired machine rest.

Bill, Jr., had SRM-2 fit with ten 10-1/2-inch barrels, with twists ranging from 1:10 to 1:60-inch. My tightest 30 and 48-shots groups at 100 yards were with the 1;32” twist, with 1:16 right behind, and the 1:14 tight as a coat of paint. If you intend to load the Hornady .358 200 grain Spire Point, go for the 1:14. The Hornady .358 200 grain Round Nose stabilizes fine from the 1:16 @ 200 meters. The Spire Point wants faster spin.

Dan Wesson Arms initiated production of the Model 40 Super Mag .357 Maximum with 1:14 twist, 8-inch barrels. Shorty thereafter shifting to 1:16 twist. Last production installed 8-inch barrels with 1:18-3/4” twist, which suggest barrels may have started from Model 15 .357 Mag round stock. The Speer .358 180 Flat Point rifle bullet performed @ 200 meters in IHMSA silhouette from the DWA M15 .357 Mag with 1:18-3/4” twist.

Smith & Wesson .357’s use 1-18-3/4 twist. Don’t know about now, but Ruger used 1-18-3/4”for double actions, 1:16 for single actions. The Colt Python thrives on 1:14-inch. The Freedom Arms 353 (Model 83) uses 1:14.

From a rifle chambered for .35 Whelen, shooting 250 grain spitzers, the menu calls for 1:12 twist. To stabilize a bullet at lower velocity, a bullet must be spun faster. Velocity is a poor substitute for twist.

It is my impression a corroded barrel can survive with a fast twist; accuracy goes all to pieces on a slow twist. Bullets with ballistic coefficient of a barn door shoot well from a variety of twists. Whereas, bullets of high BC require a tighter rpm band.

Penetration in game requires the bullet to spin fast enough to resist a veer or tumble, which is more than a matter bullet profile. Some engineers have advanced the proposition a bullet stops spinning immediately after impact. I don’t buy it. The twist story says different.
David Bradshaw

[oddshooter]

Sorry I just got to this thread, but I've been out a couple of weeks with cardiac surgery.

Once again, David, thank you for your responses to this thread. Your many contributions are invaluable and I don't know if there is another person on this planet to equal your experience.   I know many of us are grateful for your writings as there is simply no one else with your knowledge of the 357 Maximum history; clearly, my all time favorite caliber.

Much appreciated, partner.

I'm still hoping for a memoir. It'll be a damn shame to not pass on your journey to the next generation. I sometimes think it's the only responsibility we have as humans.


Prescut

[bradshaw]

Prescut.... thank you for the kind words. A memoir, eh? Do folk write a memoir from life or after life? Ulysses S. Grant in perhaps the piece of presidential writing, composed his memoir during a race against his own death. (After graduating West Point, he was thrown into the Mexican War of 1846-48, during which travels he mentions seeing buffalo as far as the eye can see, prairie grass chest-high on a man, and herds of wilds horses in the thousands....)

I would like to get my hands on SRM-2 with the ten barrels Ruger, Jr., had fitted in Southport. That gun is also the one I took a photo of Bill, Sr., shooting from a picnic table behind his house. Bill put 6x6 into 6-inches @ 100 yards. “I think that’s the first time I’ve seen the Old Man shoot in four years,” said Bill, Jr., after his father headed for the house. Progressive rheumatoid arthritis ruined Senior’s hands, to where it difficult to hold a gun and shoot it. I invited Bill to shoot his revolver at that moment, respecting his difficulty yet wanting him to try it. He didn’t flinch. In fact, I think it gave him great satisfaction. The photo was published in Guns & Ammo.

I don’t know what happened to SRM-2 and its ten barrels, nor do I know what happened to that Ruger No. 1 .357 Maximum. If I could get my hands on those guns today, I’d try both with the Mountain Molds cast, powder coated, Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC Gas Check.

Perhaps Coogs with his nose will find one or both of these guns.

Craig.... does this qualify as a hijack?
David Bradshaw