silcott
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,304
Member is Online
|
Post by silcott on Oct 25, 2019 18:40:41 GMT -5
Has anyone checked chamber throats? On mine, tje .4505 bushing barely fits. The .451 bushing does not. Mine were .4505
|
|
edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,107
|
Post by edk on Oct 25, 2019 19:43:46 GMT -5
Interestingly in the year 2019 and after all this time it would appear the midsize flat-tops are the only Blackhawk variation on which Ruger can get the throats correct. On the bright side you only have to perform machine work on a brand new cylinder as opposed to having a brand new cylinder machined as was the case a few decades back.
|
|
Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Joe S. on Oct 25, 2019 21:13:08 GMT -5
The Flattop I just bought has .451 throats. It is a 2010 model I believe.
|
|
|
Post by squawberryman on Oct 26, 2019 5:46:45 GMT -5
I just bit. 804 shipped. There are two dealers on GB right now that state inventory levels over 95 each dealer though I didn't buy from them. That's 190 plus between the two dealers if the record is correct. Will check grip fit and mic throats once it hits Mark. What have your triggers felt like gentlemen out of the box?
|
|
silcott
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,304
Member is Online
|
Post by silcott on Oct 26, 2019 6:41:37 GMT -5
I just bit. 804 shipped. There are two dealers on GB right now that state inventory levels over 95 each dealer though I didn't buy from them. That's 190 plus between the two dealers if the record is correct. Will check grip fit and mic throats once it hits Mark. What have your triggers felt like gentlemen out of the box? My trigger had a lot of creep, crown was way off, grip fit was horrible, barrel cylinder gap is .0075. I am in the process of fixing all the above except the barrel cylinder gap, I’ll fix that after hunting season.
|
|
Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Joe S. on Oct 26, 2019 7:32:48 GMT -5
Trigger isn’t terrible on mine for a factory gun. Not near as mich creep as my 44 Bis Hunter had.
I have a 4525 reamer i will rent out. Let me bump the thread since these new 45s have been released.
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Oct 26, 2019 8:40:31 GMT -5
"My trigger had a lot of creep, crown was way off, grip fit was horrible, barrel cylinder gap is .0075. I am in the process of fixing all the above except the barrel cylinder gap, I’ll fix that after hunting season.” -----silcott
*****
silcott.... missing from this assessment, a look at the bore. I’d slug the bore for uniformity and to check for potential compression ring at juncture of barrel shoulder & frame (tenon/shoulder angle). An unsure or burred crown is unusual, the easiest detail fixed, and low on the totem pole of dimensions critical to revolver accuracy. Of much greater importance: the forcing cone and bore. Chamber exit holes of .451-inch are the last thing I’d address, and I’d target before at minimum 50 yards before doing any work.
In fact, I would bag the gun with known ammo @ 50 and 100 yards before taking any remedial steps. Last time I looked, and that was along time ago, barrels for the Redhawk were drop forged by a vendor, the rough forgings machined, gun drilled, reamed, and rifled with a broach in Newport. To form the rib, I would guess the SBH Hunter barrel to start as a drop forging, then machined, etc., in house. While it may be possible to start with round stock and hammer forge the rifling, there remains much steel machine to end up with a rib. Tool time is cost. If the lands show annular marks, while the groove shows longitudinal marks or no marks, the grooves were cut with a broach. If there are annular marks in bore and some evidence of same in groove, most likely the rifling was formed in a hammer forging machine.
Between bore diameter and groove diameter, groove diameter is more important. As for a compression ring formed from over-tightening the barrel, that must be addressed by one of following methods 1) Remove barrel. Set thread timing Set thread timing on lathe to hand tighten 10 to 12-degrees BTDC. Set gap minimum for free rotation. 2) Remove barrel. Ream freebore .452-inch x .800-inch deep with smooth leade on lands. Freebore is not less than groove diameter. Set thread timing per above. 3) Fire lap. 4) Replace barrel.
Set trigger to your liking, either with a strong contact patch and smooth take-up with clean break, or without perceptible take-up, clean break. Trigger must incline to sweep rearward @ hammer fall. At all hazards, trigger must not kick forward at hammer fall. Weight of pull is set with trigger spring. Engagement is set between HAMMER DOG and TRIGGER SEAR. Do not attempt to set weight of pull at sear.
Once I have a shootable trigger, I would evaluate the bore on targets before taking other action. David Bradshaw
|
|
silcott
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,304
Member is Online
|
Post by silcott on Oct 26, 2019 9:34:38 GMT -5
"My trigger had a lot of creep, crown was way off, grip fit was horrible, barrel cylinder gap is .0075. I am in the process of fixing all the above except the barrel cylinder gap, I’ll fix that after hunting season.” -----silcott ***** silcott.... missing from this assessment, a look at the bore. I’d slug the bore for uniformity and to check for potential compression ring at juncture of barrel shoulder & frame (tenon/shoulder angle). An unsure or burred crown is unusual, the easiest detail fixed, and low on the totem pole of dimensions critical to revolver accuracy. Of much greater importance: the forcing cone and bore. Chamber exit holes of .451-inch are the last thing I’d address, and I’d target before at minimum 50 yards before doing any work. In fact, I would bag the gun with known ammo @ 50 and 100 yards before taking any remedial steps. Last time I looked, and that was along time ago, barrels for the Redhawk were drop forged by a vendor, the rough forgings machined, gun drilled, reamed, and rifled with a broach in Newport. To form the rib, I would guess the SBH Hunter barrel to start as a drop forging, then machined, etc., in house. While it may be possible to start with round stock and hammer forge the rifling, there remains much steel machine to end up with a rib. Tool time is cost. If the lands show annular marks, while the groove shows longitudinal marks or no marks, the grooves were cut with a broach. If there are annular marks in bore and some evidence of same in groove, most likely the rifling was formed in a hammer forging machine. Between bore diameter and groove diameter, groove diameter is more important. As for a compression ring formed from over-tightening the barrel, that must be addressed by one of following methods 1) Remove barrel. Set thread timing Set thread timing on lathe to hand tighten 10 to 12-degrees BTDC. Set gap minimum for free rotation. 2) Remove barrel. Ream freebore .452-inch x .800-inch deep with smooth leade on lands. Freebore is not less than groove diameter. Set thread timing per above. 3) Fire lap. 4) Replace barrel. Set trigger to your liking, either with a strong contact patch and smooth take-up with clean break, or without perceptible take-up, clean break. Trigger must incline to sweep rearward @ hammer fall. At all hazards, trigger must not kick forward at hammer fall. Weight of pull is set with trigger spring. Engagement is set between HAMMER DOG and TRIGGER SEAR. Do not attempt to set weight of pull at sear. Once I have a shootable trigger, I would evaluate the bore on targets before taking other action. David Bradshaw Bore slugs good. .4522 x .4426 it’s not chocked down at the frame. Surprisingly, the forcing cone looks pretty good, and the lockup (timing of the cylinder to bore) is right on. Could use a little wider latch to take up some play in the cylinder though. I’ll address that when I set the barrel cylinder gap at a later date. These barrels are cut rifling. The trigger is dead on 4lbs. out of the box. I’ll leave that alone, but it did have a lot more creep than I like. That’s already fixed. As for the crown, it was off center of the bore .018 that has already been addressed as well. I just finished milling the grip frame, and I’m now in the process of making a set of grips.
|
|
|
Post by bradshaw on Oct 26, 2019 12:35:34 GMT -5
Bore slugs good. .4522 x .4426 it’s not chocked down at the frame. Surprisingly, the forcing cone looks pretty good, and the lockup (timing of the cylinder to bore) is right on. Could use a little wider latch to take up some play in the cylinder though. I’ll address that when I set the barrel cylinder gap at a later date. These barrels are cut rifling.
The trigger is dead on 4lbs. out of the box. I’ll leave that alone, but it did have a lot more creep than I like. That’s already fixed.
As for the crown, it was off center of the bore .018 that has already been addressed as well.
I just finished milling the grip frame, and I’m now in the process of making a set of grips. [/quote]
*****
Groove diameter of .4522” sounds a bit loose. (However, a slightly loose groove diameter in an otherwise good barrel responds well to a positive dimensional package leading up to it.) Another item, a smooth, concentric forcing cone plays a huge part in preventing obturation before bullet enters bore.
Grips and grip fit are the last thing I worry about.
Sounds like you’re on it. David Bradshaw
|
|
Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Joe S. on Oct 26, 2019 13:39:14 GMT -5
I would love to be able to do that stuff without having to pay someone.
|
|
Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Joe S. on Oct 26, 2019 17:23:49 GMT -5
I just removed this material from the chamber throats... A .452 bullets pushes through now with minimal force. B/C gap seems between 0.006” and 0.007”.
|
|
Snyd
.375 Atomic
The Last Frontier
Posts: 2,388
|
Post by Snyd on Oct 26, 2019 20:52:58 GMT -5
Some things never change. I reamed mine to .4525
|
|
edk
.375 Atomic
Posts: 1,107
|
Post by edk on Oct 26, 2019 21:50:05 GMT -5
The Flattop I just bought has .451 throats. It is a 2010 model I believe. Hard to say 0.451" is wrong given the 0.451" bore and the fact the majority of these revolvers purchased will be shooting jacketed bullets. True, the members of this forum would likely prefer 0.452" - 0.4525" but your revolver is not smaller than bore nor are the throats huge so all-in-all yours arrived in good shape. Over the years I have settled on two types of Ruger revolvers that satisfy: older 3-screw SBH models and the flattops of the last 10+ years. No, the flattops are not perfect but on average pretty good. Almost 20 years ago my first Ruger single action was one of the Accusport 45 Bisleys. It needed a lot of work to be worthy of being considered a "keeper". Down the road it went and for about the same money a series of remedies would have ended up costing (plus the initial cost of the gun) it was replaced by a used but unfired FA model 83. The only other model that has really proved tempting has been the 454/480 five shots but those were really hit/miss as well. Lately Whitworth has posted the 454s don't even stand up well - not good. The hunter series really called to me when first introduced 25 years ago. A nice configuration to be sure. Great to hear some guys are getting good ones. It would appear silcott got one in need of work. Thankfully he's in a position to do it but it's a shame he has to. If a good gunsmith was paid to do all he is doing it would close to double the revolvers price much like that Accusport Bisley. Good luck to the balance of the 45 bis hunter buyers on the forum: may they get good ones!
|
|
cmillard
.375 Atomic
MOLON LABE
Posts: 1,943
|
Post by cmillard on Oct 27, 2019 12:47:51 GMT -5
You will see a difference in how cast bullets shoot after reaming the throats. All of my Ruger bisleys performed night and day better after the Manson reamers where used on the chamber exits
|
|
Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
|
Post by Joe S. on Oct 27, 2019 13:32:14 GMT -5
Oh absolutely. I don’t even shoot a 45 before checking/ reaming the throats.
|
|