Heavy 45 acp loads

[fltbed]

After reading John Taffin’s articles on loading the 45 acp to original 45 colt spec’s with 250/260 gr. Lead SWC bullets and reading all the post’s on the 1911forum about it. I decided to try it myself.

My test gun is my old Springfield “Loaded” 1911 stainless. This is my USPSA Single stack/limited 10 gun and has been modified for competition with a trigger job, mag well, checkering, fiber optic sight, EGW firing pin stop, etc. The only change I made to it was to change out the recoil spring for an ISMI 20 lb. (heaviest one I had on hand).

I contacted a friend I met on brasstrader.com who casts very good bullets, and he had both the Lyman 250 gr. And the RCBS 260 gr. Molds and was willing to send me a sample of each for some brass I didn’t need.

Mr. Taffin always used Unique to fuel his “heavy” acp loads but I always thought there were better powder choices, so I settled on three to try.
Winchester Super Field, served me well in the 40 S&W with 200 gr. Bullets loaded to the old USPSA power factor.
Blue Dot, has been my go to powder for over twenty years for high velocity loads in the 9mm, 40 S&W and 45 acp.
Accurate No. 7, because I had some sitting in the powder locker and I found loading data for it.

WSF: I was on my own here as I could find no data at all for anything heaver than 240 gr. JHP’s. I worked up to 6.0 gr. Showing 890 f.p.s. with both bullets but accuracy just was not there.

Blue Dot: This was a real disappointment as I experienced three jams where the slide closed before the rim of the cartridge was in front of the breach face. Although the brass showed no sign of excessive pressures the apparent extreme slide velocity stopped further testing.

Accurate No. 7: This was a real shocker as the only load tested was what I felt to be a good start load of 0.5 gr. under suggested max in the data I could find. Velocity was way over what I expected and accuracy (especially with the RCBS 260 gr. Bullet) was better than I can normally do with open sights. I feel a new can of No. 7 needs to be acquired and further tests run.

All the ammo was loaded in Federal brass with Winchester primers to an OAL of 1.200 (ten shot strings) All the brass was ejected 8-10 feet away and none of the empty cases showed signs of excessive pressure. Target was at 50 yards.

Lyman 250 gr. SWC:
6.0 gr. WSF Vel. 890 f.p.s. ES. 43 SD. 15 group size 7.5”
10.0 gr. No. 7 Vel. 940 f.p.s. ES. 50 SD. 15 group size 5.2”
8.2 gr. Blue Dot Vel. 850 f.p.s. ES. 43 SD 14 group size 7”

RCBS 260 gr. SWC:
6.0 gr. WSF Vel. 890 f.p.s. ES. 22 SD. 6 group size 9”
10.0 gr. No. 7 Vel. 940 f.p.s. ES. 43 SD. 12 group size 4.25”
8.2 gr. Blue Dot Vel. 890 f.p.s. ES. 78 SD 23 group size 7”

I feel this further proves what Mr. Taffin said in his articles about the 45 acp being capable of doing anything the original 45 Colt load could do.

The sad thing is, that here in Pennsylvania, shooting any critter for any reason with an auto loading handgun will get you a fine and your gun confiscated by the game commission. Of course, everybody throws in the qualifying statement “only if your caught” but I don’t like to take chances with the game nazi….er…wardens.

As always, this data is safe in my gun. Experiment at your own risk.

Cheers.

Jeff

PS Sorry for not posting any pics, but my camera died.

[nobearsyet]

Have you tried getting that kind of results with any other powders before? I have found the old militar yauto load can be reached regularly with bullseye, but I don't have anything heavier than 230grn LRN floating around here.

[TEXASFIVEGUN]

A 260gr LFN-GC, CCI-350, and H-110 makes a good hog hunting load for me. I can't tell you the powder charge cuz I pulled it out of my azz but if I want more power I'll need a larger case or a faster powder.

[shorty500]

CHUCK TAYLOR ONCE WROTE AN ARTICLE ON THE .45AUTORIM IN S&W M25. HE WAS USING A LARGE DOSE OF 2400 (14 OR 14.5 g, DON'T RECALL FOR SURE) WITH LYMAN #454424 FOR AROUND 1100FPS! AFTER SEEING THAT I SET UP A PARA-ORDNANCE LDA FOR THE .45SUPER. I WORKED UP TO 14g OF 2400 UNDER THE TYPICAL 250/255g RF SLUGS SO WOULD FEED. I GOT 1120FPS FROM THE 5" BARREL. ALSO TRIED IT IN S&W M625 AND A FREEDOM ARMS CLYINDER ON MY M83. SIMILAR VELOCITIES FROM 5.5 &4-3/4 TUBES. AM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS AND WOULD SAY THAT ANYONE THAT DOES TRY IT SHOULD ONLY USE IN RAMPED 1911 WITH HEAVY AS IN 24LB PLUS RECOIL SPRINGS AND BUFFER, ETC. OR THE FREEDOM ARMS GUNS. CAUTION AND CAREFULLLOAD DEVCELOPEMENT SHOULD BE USED!! POSTED THIS FOR INFO PURPOSES ONLY.

[Markbo]

I did that before too. It's called the .460 Rowland. Heckuva hog gun. ;D

Kimber stainless lower, Caspian upper and a whole lotta aftermarket parts later:


I have a very bright light for the bottom rail and the top rail (welded and pinned to the slide) has sights dovetailed into it and can of course handle optics too. So far the only thing I have used is a red dot. I'm afraid a gun scope would either not hold up or negatively affect the recoil balance.

[fltbed]

May 21, 2009 7:47:17 GMT -5 nobearsyet said:

Have you tried getting that kind of results with any other powders before? I have found the old militar yauto load can be reached regularly with bullseye, but I don't have anything heavier than 230grn LRN floating around here.

No. Like I said in my post, it was just an experiment with powders I had on hand, that I thought could push a 250-260 gr. Bullet to 800-850 f.p.s. without going into +P pressures and beyond.
I even found reloading data for the Blue Dot and No.7 using jacketed bullets, but the print data showed higher powder charges at lower velocities, but were still well under the 21,000p.s.i. limit.

Jeff

[fltbed]

May 22, 2009 19:35:21 GMT -5 Markbo said:

I did that before too. It's called the .460 Rowland. Heckuva hog gun. ;D

No Mark definitely not a Rowland. My loads are at least, what, 200-300 f.p.s. (and probably 10,000p.s.i.) away from what a Rowland can do?

[nobearsyet]

Isn't a 45 Super basically a 45acp outside dimension case in a 1911 with like a 30lb recoil spring? Don't remember where I read that at.

[shorty500]

May 23, 2009 12:07:53 GMT -5 nobearsyet said:

Isn't a 45 Super basically a 45acp outside dimension case in a 1911 with like a 30lb recoil spring? Don't remember where I read that at.

you are correct and the pressures(on some rare factory ammo) are up around 28000psi also which was considerably higher than what HODGDON has recently published. the Hodgdon data is at .45ACP+P pressure of 23000psi MAX.
have been several different recoil spring systems used. i use a 24lb spring with shock buffer. have heard of folks using 28lb and also the old dual spring system from the Colt Delta Elite 10mm.

[nobearsyet]

That's what I thought, and that being said wouldn't it quite easy to respring a 45ACP and just shoot the 45Super ammo when something heavier is in order?

[shorty500]

yes it is that easy given that you have a good strong modern gun. wouldn't abuse older models that way. and a fitted super tight gun with an oversize firing pin and heavy duty firing pin spring are good ideas to with either the .45super or the .460 rowland.

[fltbed]

May 24, 2009 11:09:43 GMT -5 nobearsyet said:

That's what I thought, and that being said wouldn't it quite easy to respring a 45ACP and just shoot the 45Super ammo when something heavier is in order?

I would recommend to anyone loading a 1911 to even full power acp load (up to 21,000 p.s.i.) to invest in an EGW oversize firing pin stop.egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=36&zenid=43f05a5439603b22372e9fe1bf496f3a .
With no angle cut on the bottom it really slows down the barrel unlocking part of the timing. I have one of these installed on all my 1911’s. Remember when you go with a heaver recoil spring you are increasing the force that the slide closes as well. This can cause just as many problems/breakages as having the slide opening to fast.

Jeff

[nobearsyet]

Very true, then again, a screwed up over stoned disconnector can cause a bunch of problems too, don't ask me how I know