Post by matt56 on Mar 27, 2019 21:06:33 GMT -5
This is basically my first attempt at revolver smithing. I've been gathering tools for a little while now, different end face and chamfer cutters, a barrel setback tool from brownell's, etc. I have these crazy dreams of turning average revolvers into more desirable ones. Not for a profit of course, just for my own personal satisfaction.
I figured the first project I could undertake was making a 4" model 64-5 round butt DAO into something a little more worthwhile. I don't know why I bought this gun, I don't shoot anything double action, I just thought it was cool because it had a factory forged DA hammer. I never even fired it like that.
The first thing I started thinking was that I wish this thing didn't have a MIM trigger, that and I would like a hammer spur. I read somewhere that if you buy a hammer and trigger matched set that there's a better chance of a drop in fit. This proved to be accurate. I bought a model 10-10 all forged hammer and trigger set on ebay and dropped it in. Everything worked perfect boosting my confidence up one notch. I also switched over to the old style cylinder latch around this point.
That's when I started getting a little more brave with my ideas. When I had this gun all apart I wanted to see what differences if any I could find between it and my model 65-5 3". The frames and yokes look exactly the same. If you don't know it a model 64 is a 38 special and a model 65 is a 357 magnum. There are no signs of heat treating on one gun and not the other. I really believe these frames are the same. That's when I felt a little more comfortable about my idea. Not to mention I already had a round butt frame, before this all 4" 64 frames were square butt.
The next thing was when I found a 3" model 65 barrel on eBay. I paid dearly for this barrel, it is a highly desirable part that isn't manufactured any more. You can't just install a 65 barrel though, the length that protrudes through the frame is not as long as the 64. The 65 cylinder is longer so you can't just drop in a 357 cylinder into a 38 gun. Luckily Midway had model 65/66 cylinders in stock. All I did was switch over my original extractor to the new cylinder.
Here is my 64, 65 and the new 65 parts.
Now I had to figure out the hardest part. Unscrewing the barrel from the frame. My first attempt failed. I used pine 2x4s to make the barrel blocks and they just broke apart. The wood was too soft and the grain was going parallel to the barrel. The next attempt was with oak blocks cut with the grain going perpendicular to the barrel. This worked. The barrel was tight but it did unscrew with no damage to the frame.
Next I test fitted my new barrel. It hand tightened a little bit shy of where the old barrel hand tightened to. I knew I needed to cut it down just a few thousandths . I used the Brownell's barrel setback tool and gently took a little bit off the barrel shoulder. I cut the barrel down until it hand tightened down just a bit after the original barrel. No science was used here. I would say 1/10 of a turn before 12 o'clock is about where the barrel hand tightened. Because the K frame barrel is so narrow where it passes through the frame I didn't feel comfortable trying to crank this thing down. I'm glad I didn't. There are many reports of cracked barrels undoubtedly due to the stress they can endure from overtightening.
After installing the barrel and the cylinder onto the old extractor rod/yoke I reassembled the gun the rest of the way. The cylinder would close but the cylinder was snug up against the barrel. I cut the barrel back slowly and gently so as not to go too far using the cutter from Brownell's. Once I reached about .003-.004 cylinder gap I stopped. The cylinder closes great now and does not touch the barrel at any point.
I have not decided what to do about the forcing cone yet. The factory forcing cone is there and probably okay but I'm not going to touch it until I get a range rod and check alignment. I also need to get a tool to check yoke alignment just to be sure. I won't be firing this gun until I do.
If I do cut the forcing cone I'm going to do 5 degrees. The older K frame barrels are very thin at 6 o'clock and a wide cone could make the barrel dangerously thin and prone to cracking. I believe the factory cone is 7-8 degrees but no one sells a cutter or gauges for that.
Oh well, that is about all for now. Here is the almost finished project with the old parts. Sorry for the bad pictures, I was too wrapped up in what I was doing.
I figured the first project I could undertake was making a 4" model 64-5 round butt DAO into something a little more worthwhile. I don't know why I bought this gun, I don't shoot anything double action, I just thought it was cool because it had a factory forged DA hammer. I never even fired it like that.
The first thing I started thinking was that I wish this thing didn't have a MIM trigger, that and I would like a hammer spur. I read somewhere that if you buy a hammer and trigger matched set that there's a better chance of a drop in fit. This proved to be accurate. I bought a model 10-10 all forged hammer and trigger set on ebay and dropped it in. Everything worked perfect boosting my confidence up one notch. I also switched over to the old style cylinder latch around this point.
That's when I started getting a little more brave with my ideas. When I had this gun all apart I wanted to see what differences if any I could find between it and my model 65-5 3". The frames and yokes look exactly the same. If you don't know it a model 64 is a 38 special and a model 65 is a 357 magnum. There are no signs of heat treating on one gun and not the other. I really believe these frames are the same. That's when I felt a little more comfortable about my idea. Not to mention I already had a round butt frame, before this all 4" 64 frames were square butt.
The next thing was when I found a 3" model 65 barrel on eBay. I paid dearly for this barrel, it is a highly desirable part that isn't manufactured any more. You can't just install a 65 barrel though, the length that protrudes through the frame is not as long as the 64. The 65 cylinder is longer so you can't just drop in a 357 cylinder into a 38 gun. Luckily Midway had model 65/66 cylinders in stock. All I did was switch over my original extractor to the new cylinder.
Here is my 64, 65 and the new 65 parts.
Now I had to figure out the hardest part. Unscrewing the barrel from the frame. My first attempt failed. I used pine 2x4s to make the barrel blocks and they just broke apart. The wood was too soft and the grain was going parallel to the barrel. The next attempt was with oak blocks cut with the grain going perpendicular to the barrel. This worked. The barrel was tight but it did unscrew with no damage to the frame.
Next I test fitted my new barrel. It hand tightened a little bit shy of where the old barrel hand tightened to. I knew I needed to cut it down just a few thousandths . I used the Brownell's barrel setback tool and gently took a little bit off the barrel shoulder. I cut the barrel down until it hand tightened down just a bit after the original barrel. No science was used here. I would say 1/10 of a turn before 12 o'clock is about where the barrel hand tightened. Because the K frame barrel is so narrow where it passes through the frame I didn't feel comfortable trying to crank this thing down. I'm glad I didn't. There are many reports of cracked barrels undoubtedly due to the stress they can endure from overtightening.
After installing the barrel and the cylinder onto the old extractor rod/yoke I reassembled the gun the rest of the way. The cylinder would close but the cylinder was snug up against the barrel. I cut the barrel back slowly and gently so as not to go too far using the cutter from Brownell's. Once I reached about .003-.004 cylinder gap I stopped. The cylinder closes great now and does not touch the barrel at any point.
I have not decided what to do about the forcing cone yet. The factory forcing cone is there and probably okay but I'm not going to touch it until I get a range rod and check alignment. I also need to get a tool to check yoke alignment just to be sure. I won't be firing this gun until I do.
If I do cut the forcing cone I'm going to do 5 degrees. The older K frame barrels are very thin at 6 o'clock and a wide cone could make the barrel dangerously thin and prone to cracking. I believe the factory cone is 7-8 degrees but no one sells a cutter or gauges for that.
Oh well, that is about all for now. Here is the almost finished project with the old parts. Sorry for the bad pictures, I was too wrapped up in what I was doing.
