Tulsa Finds - Part 4...

[Boge Quinn]

1924 Elgin B.W. Raymond pocket watch. The B.W. Raymond was Elgin's signature Railroad Grade watch. This example was Grade 472, one of a run of 1000 made in 1924, the first 16-size lot made with a "swan-neck" (J-shaped) regulator - see the last picture.

This watch has a BEAUTIFUL Montgomery dial. Henry S. Montgomery was the General Watch and Clock Inspector of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway (AT&SF) from 1896 to 1923. During the first decade of the twentieth century he patented a marginal minute dial that had three distinctive features. First, the marginal minute numbers were all upright, as opposed to radial numbers which were used on other dial designs. Second, the five minute numbers were slightly larger than the other minute numbers (frequently, as on this example, the five minute numbers are red, whereas the remainder are black). Finally, the sixth hour figure is included, contained within the sub-seconds dial. This sixth hour figure is generally unusual amongst pocket watch dials. The dial on this watch is perfect, and indeed the entire watch is in exceptionally fine condition, and is keeping perfect time.

I bought it off a guy who was carrying around a bunch of watches in a backpack with a sign that read "Watches for Sale", so I collared him and found an empty table. He had several Rolex and such, a few solid gold-cased pocket watches with 7-to-15 jewel movements, and three Railroad Grade pocket watches, two Hamiltons and this one - as much as I love Hamiltons, the perfect Montgomery dial really got me going. Guy was asking $425, which was reasonable, but I got him down to $300.

I bought two sixguns and this watch on Friday, and the show didn't even start until Saturday!

[wickerbill]

Boge, is there any way to trace a date of manufacture on Elgin watches.
Bill

[carl]

Boge,

That's a beautiful watch! Good score!

Carl

[Boge Quinn]

Nov 20, 2009 20:45:06 GMT -5 wickerbill said:

Boge, is there any way to trace a date of manufacture on Elgin watches.
Bill

Yes, there is an excellent Elgin online database. Just input the serial number off the MOVEMENT (NOT the serial number on the case!), and the online database will give you a LOT of great info - manufacture date, quantity of watches in that run of watches, info relating that that particular run, number of jewels, etc. There's usually even a link to an Ebay history so you can see what similar watches have brought at auction. An EXCELLENT online resource!

elginwatches.org/databases/elgin_sn_intro.html

[wickerbill]

Thanks Boge, I'll check it out. I bought this one several years ago. Don't know any history on the watch, all I know is it keep real good time.

[wickerbill]

Thanks Boge, I ran the SN and it is a grade 301 HC model 2, built in 1918. It's a size 12s with the sec. hand dial at 3 o'clock. It's a 7 jewel with 5 beats /sec. There were 3000 made.
Bill

[Mark Terry]

Boge,

Thanks. I stopped by one of my local pawn/ gun shops......

...and looked at the watches. Just what I needed.

Now I have to look at the single actions, then the double actions, then the lever actions, then if they have a No.1, the knives, and now the watches.

[maxcactus]

What a gorgeous piece of engineering & art. Outstanding find, Boge, along with the sixguns of course.

[Boge Quinn]

Some people (my brother among them) can't find a way to fully appreciate the engineering and manufacturing skills required to make such a precision instrument well enough that it still runs perfectly and keeps perfect time after 85 years. They'd rather plunk down $15 on a battery-powered Timex at Wal-Mart and not have to worry about setting it or winding it.

Interestingly, some of these same people (again, my brother among them) DO see the artistry, the practicality, and the CHARM of a Colt SAA, and would argue from now on that a Glock is not "better" simply by virtue of being more "modern".

To me, it's two sides of the same coin: just as an argument can be made for the Timex over the RR watch, an argument can be made for the Glock over the SAA. I strongly disagree on both points, and for largely the same reasons. I think that's why a goodly number of sixgunners / levergunners appreciate a good pocket watch.

[maxcactus]

Nov 25, 2009 10:02:11 GMT -5 Boge Quinn said:

Some people (my brother among them) can't find a way to fully appreciate the engineering and manufacturing skills required to make such a precision instrument well enough that it still runs perfectly and keeps perfect time after 85 years. They'd rather plunk down $15 on a battery-powered Timex at Wal-Mart and not have to worry about setting it or winding it.

Interestingly, some of these same people (again, my brother among them) DO see the artistry, the practicality, and the CHARM of a Colt SAA, and would argue from now on that a Glock is not "better" simply by virtue of being more "modern".

To me, it's two sides of the same coin: just as an argument can be made for the Timex over the RR watch, an argument can be made for the Glock over the SAA. I strongly disagree on both points, and for largely the same reasons. I think that's why a goodly number of sixgunners / levergunners appreciate a good pocket watch.

I find your brother's position perplexing as well. We marvel today at the precision of something like a Freedom Arms revolver that is made in large measure with the assistance of computers. To see something like a pocket watch created a century ago, almost entirely by hand, with minuscule parts, each precisely fitted and built to last for a century or more, impresses me in some ways quite a bit more.

Several years ago I was in Eagle, Idaho and stopped in at the Priest Hat Company with my brother. The shop was small but a very impressive operation. We met the proprietor, Bret, who spent a good amount of time explaining how his hats were made, what they were made from, and the machines on which they were made. The hats were plenty impressive themselves (especially the drill instructor's and highway patrolman's/trooper's hats!) but the century old machines on which he made the hats were again, engineering marvels themselves. Still as good and as functional as the day they were made.

Same with all those fancy guitars you're showcasing. You can only appreciate a guitar so much until you see a master luthier at work assembling one by hand. Gives a whole new appreciation to the word "craftsmanship."

I guess sometimes we just have to look a little closer and dream a little longer to appreciate some of the finer things in life?

Max.

[Boge Quinn]

I think it's just that Jeff, and those of like mind, see a watch as a nothing, just a mundane little tool, and they are right. But a fine old watch, like a fine old sixgun, is so much MORE.