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Post by potatojudge on Jul 17, 2018 13:14:15 GMT -5
Maybe unpopular is the wrong word, but most accounts find it disappointing. Comparing Lee's loads here www.singleactions.com/TheSuperMags6.htmlto Garret loads here www.garrettcartridges.com/44mag.htmlthe performance gains are unimpressive. Why is that the case and can anything be done to bring the 445 up to expected performance levels (lets call that a 200fps gain or more given heavy for caliber bullets compared to the 44 mag)? |
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 17, 2018 13:41:07 GMT -5
Maybe unpopular is the wrong word, but most accounts find it disappointing. Comparing Lee's loads here www.singleactions.com/TheSuperMags6.htmlto Garret loads here www.garrettcartridges.com/44mag.htmlthe performance gains are unimpressive. Why is that the case and can anything be done to bring the 445 up to expected performance levels (lets call that a 200fps gain or more given heavy for caliber bullets compared to the 44 mag)? ***** .445 Super Mag: a lot more powder, severe muzzle blast, for a moderate gain over the .44 Magnum. Elgin Gates knew as well as anybody, it didn’t stand a chance in silhouette. My impression, modus operandi for the .445 SM was to steal thunder from Dick Casull’s 454, and, at the same time, trespass a little more onto the .357 Maximum. Dan Wesson Arms already had the revolver, having stretch the M44 .44 Mag to make the M40 .357 Maximum. For all its fine attributes, the modernist large frame DWA is not the vehicle for milking velocity from slow powder at high pressure. Endshake at discharge would have to be eliminated to minimize cylinder gap. Among double actions, endshake is more easily controlled in the Redhawk/SRH. Or, even, a Smith & Wesson. This is one of the least pleasant revolver cartridges to fire, especially considering the small gain in velocity. David Bradshaw |
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Post by coldtriggerfinger on Jul 17, 2018 14:04:14 GMT -5
Or the Buffalo Bore 340 gr WLN +P+ factory ammo.
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Jul 17, 2018 14:53:48 GMT -5
Best results would be realized in a T/C barrel, preferably in an Encore.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jul 17, 2018 15:08:19 GMT -5
so... as was hinted earlier... is the lack of stellar performance gains due to the Dan Wesson, & a larger barrel cylinder gap, or something about the cartridge??? 357 Max, seems OK in the Dan Wesson I shoot... 500 uber magnums seem popular in both singe actions & double actions...
I'm not particularly fond of the blast of something hotter than a regular magnum... the recoil of my 454 isn't beyond control, but the blast is unpleasant ( about like a 30 Carbine out of a Blackhawk... not painfull in the hand, painfull in the ears... wondering if there isn't more to be gained from a Condender / Encore's no barrel gap, & possibly longer barrel ( as was mentioned ) or with a different powder???
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Post by matt56 on Jul 17, 2018 16:15:20 GMT -5
I have two 445 super mag contender barrels, one super 14 and a ported custom shop 15". I was intrigued by the caliber enough to buy the 2 barrels but not enough to actually follow through with testing loads. I even went and bought a G2 frame just for the one barrel so I wouldn't risk stretching a good older frame. To say they are a handful is an understatement. I shot the blued barrel about 100 times and that was it. Once I reached a mid H110 load with a 300gr XTP I stopped having fun. They don't just knock down silhouettes they punish them in the process. I have a really nice 280gr WFNGC mold that I was working with too. I haven't given up on them yet but they haven't been to the range in a while.   |
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Post by bigbrowndog on Jul 17, 2018 19:55:09 GMT -5
I wonder if it lies in the lack of chamber support due to cylinder being drilled with bigger holes but cylinder diameter remaining the same diameter so less meat to control the pressures, consequently you can’t load it to its potential in the revolver it was designed to fit into.
Trapr
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Post by bradshaw on Jul 18, 2018 7:07:18 GMT -5
I wonder if it lies in the lack of chamber support due to cylinder being drilled with bigger holes but cylinder diameter remaining the same diameter so less meat to control the pressures, consequently you can’t load it to its potential in the revolver it was designed to fit into. Trapr ***** The double action revolver must limit limit yoke endshake to minimize cylinder endshake. The traditional way to do this on a magnum is for the barrel ejector shroud or barrel to act as a shoulder against forward movement of the yoke (aka crane). This is much stronger than a screw or plunger bearing against a groove in the yoke pivot. With zero movement of the yoke in closed position, the cylinder may be fit to eliminate endshake. When the barrel is called upon to limit cylinder endshake, the cylinder binds against the barrel on rotation. In manufacture, Dan Wesson Arms held critical dimensions amazingly well, which lead to ascendancy on the firing lines of silhouette (fast lock time and light recoil for cartridge played a critical roll, also). There was room for improvement in the Dan Wesson, a criticism no revolver escapes. Back to the original question: neither the Dan Wesson nor any other revolver would have saved the .445 Super Mag. David Bradshaw |
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Post by potatojudge on Jul 20, 2018 23:20:07 GMT -5
Is it something about the shape of the powder column that makes it fall short on performance? Pressure limits? The 414 Gates isn't that different and you never hear a bad word said about it.
Were somebody to build a 5 shot 445 on a Ruger Max frame and push it to the limits, would it's reputation change?? What about a 6 shot? Is this a case where you need a 350+ grain bullet to realize the cartridge's utility?
320 grain at 1500 fps is closing in on 454 territory, so why not expect similar recoil and blast? The 454 remains popular despite it's manners.
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Post by Lee Martin on Jul 21, 2018 9:51:37 GMT -5
The .445 SuperMag is a decent cartridge, but is hampered by: 1) Dan Wesson didn't make many of them. 2) They give moderate returns over the .44 Magnum. 3) Recoil isn't a moderate increase over the .44 Mag. They kick like a mule. Much more of a jump compared to the .357 Max or .414 SuperMag 4) Custom .445 revolvers necessitate expensive donor guns (Ruger Max or stretch-frame Seville) I have two DWs and two Contender barrels:    All of them pound the hand pretty hard. Way more punishing than a top loaded .44 Magnum. And that extra 8 - 10 grs of powder nets only 150 - 200 fps. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by buckelliott on Jul 21, 2018 12:03:29 GMT -5
Mostly it's a matter of diminishing returns, much like the .460 S&W compared to the .454 Casull. .
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kelye
.30 Stingray
www.beltmountain.com
Posts: 371
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Post by kelye on Jul 22, 2018 11:31:39 GMT -5
Speaking of the 445, I have 79 Starline nickel plated fired cases here that someone could use, $10.00 to cover the postage and they can be yours. Let me know here and send your information via PM. Kelye
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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 22, 2018 13:48:35 GMT -5
Sounds like this caliber could sure use a lever action carbine!
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Post by taffin on Jul 22, 2018 13:54:19 GMT -5
Speaking of the 445, I have 79 Starline nickel plated fired cases here that someone could use, $10.00 to cover the postage and they can be yours. Let me know here and send your information via PM. Kelye I'LL TAKE 'EM |
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Post by matt56 on Jul 22, 2018 14:09:11 GMT -5
Sounds like this caliber could sure use a lever action carbine! Sign me up! |
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