Uberti in 454 casull

[aales1]

Hello!

I am new to this forum and new to big bore revolvers. I would like to ask you a question about a revolver I bought, if you would knew something about it.

Recently I was looking to buy a cowboy pistol - Uberti Cattleman in 45 colt and came across that they make them also in 44.magnum. While waiting for imported to aquire them, there was for sale 2nd hand Uberti in 454 casull (as much as I could found out is that it is very rare gun, a bit larger than SAA clones, its a 5 shooter instead of 6 and you can shoot 454 casull from it) - what not to like about it, so I bought it.

I have already shot about 150 .45 colt through it, also a few .454 casulls, but recoil from casull is a bit much for me at this time

Gun is in very good condition, was not shot much at all, but it has a some screws in a bit bad condition.

Do you have any information about this gun? I wrote to Uberti, but they were no help. I am from Europe, but I think same revolvers were made also for US market.

As far as i know:

- its a larger than SAA or SAA clone

- it holds 5 round

- it was made about 15 years ago (single production run) - uberti said they only made 3, but importer in our country said, he remembers selling 6 of them. When I gave Uberti serial number, I did not get any response

- grip should be from 1860s model

- from what it looks compared to classic Cattleman this is much more high end product (cylinder is recessed, so round sits flush; ejector rod has "guide" that runs it away from barrel, so that it does not scratch; internals seems to be hand fitted)

- it has 4 clicks, cylinder is set free to ratete at second click (half cock)

- first click is safety (it has something on hammer that blocks it from falling on loaded round)

Size compared to 4" S&W 19. Uberti should be 6".

[gator89]

Wow, that is mighty purty. I don't know the answers to your questions, but I would buy one if I had a chance, also.

Thanks for sharing the pictures.

[mk70ss]

Never saw one of these ever. Can’t wait to hear more info on this.

[halfmoon]

Pretty sure it's an Uberti Tornado. Never seen one in the flesh. As I understand it, they are on a larger frame but still not really up to a regular diet of 454 Casull. Probably better to keep it down to 45 Colt +P pressures. The first click you mention is probably the quarter cock notch. It's designed to keep the hammer from falling if your thumb slips while pulling the hammer back. Neither it nor the half cock notch ( the next click) are really safeties though. A hard blow could still knock the hammer forward and cause an accidental discharge. Do not rely on them as safeties. For carry you'll want to load 4 rounds only leaving an empty chamber under the firing pin ( on a five shooter; half cock, load one, skip one, load, load, load, pull the hammer back and gently lower it while pointed in a safe direction).

Welcome to the forum!

[bradshaw]

Jun 27, 2018 1:05:32 GMT -5 aales1 said:

Hello!

I am new to this forum and new to big bore revolvers. I would like to ask you a question about a revolver I bought, if you would knew something about it.

Recently I was looking to buy a cowboy pistol - Uberti Cattleman in 45 colt and came across that they make them also in 44.magnum. While waiting for imported to aquire them, there was for sale 2nd hand Uberti in 454 casull (as much as I could found out is that it is very rare gun, a bit larger than SAA clones, its a 5 shooter instead of 6 and you can shoot 454 casull from it) - what not to like about it, so I bought it.

I have already shot about 150 .45 colt through it, also a few .454 casulls, but recoil from casull is a bit much for me at this time

Gun is in very good condition, was not shot much at all, but it has a some screws in a bit bad condition.

Do you have any information about this gun? I wrote to Uberti, but they were no help. I am from Europe, but I think same revolvers were made also for US market.

As far as i know:

- its a larger than SAA or SAA clone

- it holds 5 round

- it was made about 15 years ago (single production run) - uberti said they only made 3, but importer in our country said, he remembers selling 6 of them. When I gave Uberti serial number, I did not get any response

- grip should be from 1860s model

- from what it looks compared to classic Cattleman this is much more high end product (cylinder is recessed, so round sits flush; ejector rod has "guide" that runs it away from barrel, so that it does not scratch; internals seems to be hand fitted)

- it has 4 clicks, cylinder is set free to ratete at second click (half cock)

- first click is safety (it has something on hammer that blocks it from falling on loaded round)

Size compared to 4" S&W 19. Uberti should be 6".

*****

Never heard of a Uberti .454 Casull. Providing it is reliable and accurate, you may live happily ever after by confining it to .45 Colt. The .454 Casull is a much more job-specific. Freedom Arms once made .454 Casull ammunition. Production stopped when Taurus introduce the Raging Bull .454 Casull. Perhaps coincidence; perhaps not. Metallurgy and design details factor heavily to contain extreme pressure; the .454 Casull is an extreme pressure cartridge. The S&W Model 19 .357 Magnum pictured is a prime example of revolver which will not last long firing full house .357s, yet continues into old age on a diet of .38 Special. I would regard an Uberti .454 the same way. There may even be collector interest.
David Bradshaw

[taffin]

THERE IS AN OBVIOUS REASON UBERTI STOPPED MAKING THEM--60,000 PSI FOR .454 CASULL FACTORY AMMO. I WOULD NOT SHOOT IT WITH ANYTHING BUT .45 COLT. CIMARRON HAS UBERTI .44 MAGNUMS BAD BOY AND CALLAHAN MODELS

[aales1]

Hello all for answers!

I dont have a plan to shoot a lot of casull through it, if any. I am handloading and I am making some normal 45 colt, I dont have any use other for warmer loads than that. I did get a two boxes of casull ammo with it (and 5 rounds, other 15 rounds are all that gun have seen before me I guess).

I have asked Uberti if this is Tornardo model, and they said that Tornado never went into production ??

I took some more beautiful photos of revolver:

[bula]

Thank You for sharing. A pretty darn neat piece of S.A. history. 

[potatojudge]

Neat gun! It's a little concerning that Uberti won't claim the gun. Is there any chance it's a custom job?

For those with better knowledge of the Uberti, what about that setup makes it less suitable for 454 loads assuming the frame has roughly the same dimensions as a Vaquero and not a SAA?

[bradshaw]

"Is there any chance it's a custom job?

.... what about that setup makes it less suitable for 454 loads assuming the frame has roughly the same dimensions as a Vaquero and not a SAA?[/quote”
-----potatojudge

*****

Read the above Bradshaw and Taffin statements. And, based on John’s info, I wouldn’t fire one round of .454 Casull in your Uberti. But then I wouldn’t in the first place. Catastrophic failure can happen in the first shot, or the affect may be cumulative, as on a Model 19. As for making a revolver to the “same dimensions” as the Blackhawk/SBH/Vaquero, METALLURGY----alloys & heat treatment----factor as heavily as mass.
David Bradshaw

[potatojudge]

True, which makes me wonder your opinion on the Seville 454 as well. Size of a Ruger does not equal strength of a Ruger. Then again, the FA 97 and Ruger Single Six are similar in size but not strength.

Point is, given dimensional similarities between the Vaquero and this gun, which the OP states is bigger than a SAA, what you're left with is a frame of unknown value that made it to some sort of production but which Uberti won't claim. This is clearly not a typical Uberti SAA clone frame. It seems there are a handful of them out there with a quick google search.

www.icollector.com/A-UBERTI-TORNADO-TARGET-454_i29107127

aales1, would you be able to post the dimensions of the cylinder?

[aales1]

Outside diameter of cylinder is 44mm = 1.732 inch
Lenght is 46mm = 1.811 inch
From bore to outside of the cylinder is (measuring from the front) 3mm = 0.12 inch
From bore to bore (measuring from the front) 4,5mm = 1.77 inch

Each weapon sold on Europe market (most of countries) has to be individualy CIP Proof tested. What that means each is fired a two times with 30% more powerfull round that it is designed to (for revolver that is each chamber). 
So saying that firing a 454 casull in gun may fail in first time is not true - they have done that a few times, before was even aproved for sale. But I can agree that gun may fail with a lot of casull rounds.

For small arms that is:

Proof testing in C.I.P. regulated countries



German definitive smokeless powder proof marks (eagle over N figure) issued by the Beschussamt Ulm C.I.P. accredited Proof House (antlers figure) on a Walther PPS pistol.

In C.I.P. member states every civil firearm has to be professionally proofed in accredited Proof Houses before it can be sold to consumers. The proofsigns can allow to identify special periods of times in which they were used.[13] Some of the acctually used signs are:

...
The standard proof test consist of firing two overloaded cartridges that produce 25% more chamber pressure than the C.I.P. specified maximum pressure limit for the same cartridge in its commercial version. The standard proof of pistol, revolver and rimfire cartridges is performed with overloaded cartridges that produce 30% more chamber pressure than the C.I.P maximum pressure limit for the same cartridge in its commercial version. There are only two overloaded firings to avoid excessive stress to the arm, especially the barrel which is the main part suffering this overload beside the chamber (when not part of the barrel) and the locking mechanism. After the test, the arm is disassembled by the proof house technicians for nondestructive testing looking for Magnetic flux leakage through fluoroscopic lamp in a dark room. Many manufacturers, including Glock Ges.m.b.H., package the casings from a firearm's proof ammunition in a sealed envelope accompanying the firearm so that authorities in C.I.P.-signatory states and civilian purchasers in other countries can conduct an independent examination if they desire.[14]



Before the year 2006 the standard test consisted of firing two overloaded cartridges producing 30% more chamber pressure then the C.I.P. specified maximum chamber gas pressure limit for the same cartridge in its commercial version.



Voluntarily testing beyond the current legally required standard test benchmark is often also possible for consumers who intend the use their firearms under extreme conditions (hot climates, long strings of shots, etc.). In case a firearm passes such a proof-test a pass mark termed superior proof mark is stamped in every successfully tested firearm.

[dennyl]

Was just wondering if someone took a 45 Colt and rework it. I have a Super Redhawk in 454 and recoil is brutal. Nice find and curious about the cost. Thanks for sharing.

[magnumwheelman]

aales1... are you seeing those proof marks you mentioned, on this gun???

if so... it would be curious if you could ( through the serial number ) confirm what cartridge the gun was proofed for...

if so... is it possible that a 454 barrel was put on this gun, & the 45 colt chambers deepened, or that the factory barrel was stamped for 454 & & chambers deepened then reblued???

very interesting gun with lots of possibilities... I would certainly like to know more history

my only 454 Casull is a Ruger Alaskan, & it was speculated that I would need to port it, or I'd be whacking myself in the head... it turned out to not be that bad... muzzle blast is brutal, but the rubber grips & the weight of the snubbie make it otherwise quite shootable... guessing a single action grip & longer barrel changes that quite quickly

[aales1]

Yes of course it has them. It has them on barrel, cylinder and frame. 




On body it also has cip with code for year and it says 2002, so I can assume it was made that year or maybee year before.

I dont think that it was converted from classic saa, because it is a lot bigger overall and it has same serial number on 3 parts (cylinder, frame and loading gate). Only markings on barrel are CIP, caliber and manufacturer.
I am 99% sure this came like this from Uberti.
 
I have found some dimensions of similar guns online:
                                                    Cattleman  Buckhorn Old Vaquero

Cyl Dia -                                          1.671      1.722      1.732

Cyl Lgth-                                          1.614      1.695     1.703

So comparing them to my uberti it looks that Uberties cylinder (1.732 inch) is the same diameter than old Vaquero, but it is longer (1.811 inch) to accept 454 casull