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Post by contender on May 1, 2018 11:19:33 GMT -5
I keep looking at this thread,,, studying, and learning more & more. Owning a few of these Maxi's myself,,, it's intriguing to see all this info AND history. I will be having one of these molds built soon. Then I will try & see about getting similar performance out of mine. I often preach; "The devil is in the details" about a lot of things,,, but here,, the details are shining examples of that exact point.
Keep on posting as much as y'all can on this. It's invaluable!
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Post by bradshaw on May 1, 2018 11:22:24 GMT -5
Outstanding thread and just excellent shooting and what a collaboration. You guys are clicking together like me and Dick with chopsicks at a Chinese buffet! I do have one question about the Ruger rear sight. As you are adding elevation (and I realize I might have missed this), is the sight tracking left or right as well as upwards? ***** Fermin.... Dick.... knowing each of us struggles with iron sights, leastwise as yardage grows. Wind is such a part of my shooting with the 194, I’m ready for a vacation. During my last session, I cranked both left and right windage, mostly avoiding Kentucky. Not that Kentucky is a stranger; once a group starts, I want to hold the same Point of Aim. One of the SRM prototype front blades was milled slightly right of center; which required an overdose of right windage, especially as the breeze swung from 1 to 3 o’clock. Like so many Ruger single actions, this Maximum tracks a hair left, which requires right windage. I suggested Lee try his Maximum with a Hamilton Bowen click-adjustable sight. I’m sticking with Ruger irons for now, perhaps out of nostalgia for all the shooting we did behind Ruger’s house in New Hampshire Each change of sight calls for a re-ZERO. Always try to record elevation adjustments for a specific front sight, as heights vary. Ruger cut sights to various dimensions, usually in relation to my shooting @ 100 yards with SRM-4 and a couple of the other SRM's. SRM-2 would come in handy right about now, as Bill, Jr., had it fitted with ten barrels of various twists, and the topstrap drilled & tapped for a Leupold Dual Dovetail base. First time out with the Bradshaw-Martin Maximum 194 SWC GC, I doped the gun @ 25 yards, then immediately moved to 100 yards. Shot my T/C Contender Super 14 in .357 Maximum on that first session. Shells fired in the Contender won’t chamber in the Ruger. A scope on the T/C facilities groups @ 100 yards, and as long as all other COORDINATIONS of marksmanship are clean, tired eyes still shoot the scope well. Even so, the iron sight Ruger shot 22/H110 with noticeably less slop than the scoped Contender. Could it be that the Contender barrel likes H110 under the 194 even less than the Ruger? All that shooting was done under rotten weather and is due for a repeat. David Bradshaw |
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Post by bradshaw on May 1, 2018 11:39:58 GMT -5
“.... all this info AND history.”
----contender
*****
Tyrone..... thank you. As a continuing act of history, I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on SRM-2, which Bill, Jr., fitted with ten 10-1/2” barrels, which twists ranged from a fast 1:10 to a hopelessly slow 1:60-inch. Mainly, they scoped it in Southport with a Leupold 4x28mm Long Eye Relief. The effect was to lengthen Bradshaw’s shooting hours. Bill, Sr., drove up the hill one afternoon in a Wagoneer. I invited Bill to take a turn. He sat the picnic table in gray tweed jacket, suede elbow patches flapping, and draped SRM-2 on the sandbags. The Old Man squeezed a cylinder into 6-inches @ 100 yards. Brought a smile to Bill’s face, just like putting his foot in the carburetor with the top down.
David Bradshaw
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Post by squigz on May 1, 2018 12:01:47 GMT -5
I'm a complete rookie in the sense of this cartridge. I've only ever read about it in magazines, internet articles and reloading manuals. It's always been a dream to own one some day. I, too, keep coming back to read this article and anxiously await every post here to read and learn in the hopes that some day when I do own one, I can shoot a group better than Fermin.. Maybe some day i'll be able to share my own jubilation with the cartridge as you have throughout your accomplished career and development with it.
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Post by mhblaw on May 1, 2018 14:22:26 GMT -5
Although I now own two Ruger Maxi's, each barrel length, my past Maxi was a Dan Wesson. Shot it a little in IHMSA back in the early 80's but just didn't like it so down the road it went. Shot my production with a Blackhawk 41 Mag and Unlimited with an XP chambered in 7mm IHMSA. As I don't cast would sure be interested in buying some of these if a caster were to be gracious enough to cast more than he needs.
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Post by 2 Dogs on May 1, 2018 15:59:48 GMT -5
I'm a complete rookie in the sense of this cartridge. I've only ever read about it in magazines, internet articles and reloading manuals. It's always been a dream to own one some day. I, too, keep coming back to read this article and anxiously await every post here to read and learn in the hopes that some day when I do own one, I can shoot a group better than Fermin.. Maybe some day i'll be able to share my own jubilation with the cartridge as you have throughout your accomplished career and development with it. I damn sure hope you do. But even better, would be for you to UNDERSTAND how you did it. We gotta pass the torch to somebody. That's why some of us work to fill in the blanks where questions are asked. As you age, you will really begin to see how much you DONT know, and then the rush will really be on.... |
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Post by sixshot on May 1, 2018 17:49:57 GMT -5
What do you mean shoot a better group than Fermin, how tough can that be, just start pulling the trigger!! After about 30 years & maybe 300,000 rounds, half your life working 10-12 hr shifts & teaching others to shoot, many who don't even want to be there, shooting in the dark, getting chewed out by drunks, old ladies & spoiled kids, hell man, it's easy. Get started, Tick, Tick, Tick.
Dick
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Post by contender on May 1, 2018 20:46:56 GMT -5
David,,,, that peek into a little more of the real Ruger history is priceless to old collectors like me. I know Jack loves to hear such stuff too! Thanks for sharing the stories as well as the true work y'all are doing. So many "behind the scenes" stories get lost every time we lose someone. I can promise ya that I keep all this kind of stuff for future folks to read too!
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Post by 2 Dogs on May 2, 2018 1:20:49 GMT -5
What do you mean shoot a better group than Fermin, how tough can that be, just start pulling the trigger!! After about 30 years & maybe 300,000 rounds, half your life working 10-12 hr shifts & teaching others to shoot, many who don't even want to be there, shooting in the dark, getting chewed out by drunks, old ladies & spoiled kids, hell man, it's easy. Get started, Tick, Tick, Tick. Dick Dick, you are off by about several times that amount of ammunition buddy.... |
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Post by contender on May 2, 2018 8:51:11 GMT -5
BB guns don't count 2 dogs!
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Post by 2 Dogs on May 2, 2018 11:01:34 GMT -5
BB guns don't count 2 dogs! Of course not. If they did.... |
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Post by sixshot on May 2, 2018 14:48:37 GMT -5
I wasn't counting the shots during day shift!!
Dick
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Post by cherokeetracker on May 2, 2018 18:35:18 GMT -5
“.... all this info AND history.” ----contender ***** Tyrone..... thank you. As a continuing act of history, I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on SRM-2, which Bill, Jr., fitted with ten 10-1/2” barrels, which twists ranged from a fast 1:10 to a hopelessly slow 1:60-inch. Mainly, they scoped it in Southport with a Leupold 4x28mm Long Eye Relief. The effect was to lengthen Bradshaw’s shooting hours. Bill, Sr., drove up the hill one afternoon in a Wagoneer. I invited Bill to take a turn. He sat the picnic table in gray tweed jacket, suede elbow patches flapping, and draped SRM-2 on the sandbags. The Old Man squeezed a cylinder into 6-inches @ 100 yards. Brought a smile to Bill’s face, just like putting his foot in the carburetor with the top down. David Bradshaw
I think it would be fun to get your hands on the SRM-2 with all the barrels. But since that is not likely to happen, do you think you might want to run the numbers through the different twist rate calculators? Bowman-Howell Twist Rate Calculator
Miller Formula Calculator
Drag/Twist Calculator based on Bob McCoy's "McGyro" algorithm
JBM ballistics has one also not sure if Greenhill has something like these others.
You can punch in your numbers and see what these have to offer. It would not replace having the barrels in hand to run your tests, and probably not as fun but if it rains and you can't shoot and you have loaded all your test ammo,,,, well,, just a thought.
Charles
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Post by bradshaw on May 2, 2018 21:32:52 GMT -5
“.... all this info AND history.” ----contender ***** Tyrone..... thank you. As a continuing act of history, I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on SRM-2, which Bill, Jr., fitted with ten 10-1/2” barrels, which twists ranged from a fast 1:10 to a hopelessly slow 1:60-inch. Mainly, they scoped it in Southport with a Leupold 4x28mm Long Eye Relief. The effect was to lengthen Bradshaw’s shooting hours. Bill, Sr., drove up the hill one afternoon in a Wagoneer. I invited Bill to take a turn. He sat the picnic table in gray tweed jacket, suede elbow patches flapping, and draped SRM-2 on the sandbags. The Old Man squeezed a cylinder into 6-inches @ 100 yards. Brought a smile to Bill’s face, just like putting his foot in the carburetor with the top down. David Bradshaw
I think it would be fun to get your hands on the SRM-2 with all the barrels. But since that is not likely to happen, do you think you might want to run the numbers through the different twist rate calculators? Bowman-Howell Twist Rate Calculator
Miller Formula Calculator
Drag/Twist Calculator based on Bob McCoy's "McGyro" algorithm
JBM ballistics has one also not sure if Greenhill has something like these others.
You can punch in your numbers and see what these have to offer. It would not replace having the barrels in hand to run your tests, and probably not as fun but if it rains and you can't shoot and you have loaded all your test ammo,,,, well,, just a thought.
Charles
****** Charles.... no telling if & when I might enter the Twist Formula Caper. Among numerous 30 and 48 round groups fired with SRM-2 and SRM-4 at 100 yards on the hill behind Bill Ruger’s converted barn and Bill, Jr.’s house, Remington experimental 158 JHP recorded the tightest groups from the 1:16 and 1:32-inch twists. Other barrels within that twist range, especially 1:14, shot close. Since there was no heavy bullet factory experimental to be had, most of my heavy bullet shooting----all handholds----was with 200 grain .358 rifle bullets, namely Hornady 200 Round Nose and Hornady 200 Spire Point. The Hornady 200 Spire Point produced fine accuracy from the 1:14----and faster----twists. The Hornady 200 Round Nose shoots tight from the 1:16 twist. The excellent Speer .358 180-grain Flat Point tracks true from a 1:18-3/4 twist. (The Speer 180 FP was a favorite of early handgun silhouetters, notably from the .357 Auto Mag.) (I shot the Hornady .358 200 Spire Point from a Colt Python. The 1:14 twist shot it straight, but I feared the forcing cone would split and didn’t take it too far. Not to mention how deep the Spire Point seats in a .38 Special case. The long Hornady 200 Spire Point takes up too much boiler room in the Ruger cylinder, although it is at home in the longer Dan Wesson cylinder----providing you shoot it through the original M40 1:14 twist. My hope is that the Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC shapes up to combine game taking punch is a silhouette-accurate .357 projectile. Some of my shooting with the 194 has shown the bullet to cut very long, straight grooves through snow and winter-matted hayfield. Once in a while a bullet veers left or right after ground contact, while most track straight. That doesn’t happen from a slow twist. So far, the 194 seems at home in the 1:16 twist of the Ruger Maximum. I kept the 1:16 in mind while describing my design to Lee and he translated it into Dan’s bullet design program at Mountain Molds. Lee and I continue in the impression stage. Resisting conclusion, tempting as it may be. Handgun bullets stabilize over a wider rpm range than rifle bullets. Had I SRM-2 and its collection of barrels right now, I would try our 194. It would not surprise me to see some torque-stripping in the 1:10-inch twist, and possible the 1:12. David Bradshaw |
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Post by cherokeetracker on May 3, 2018 14:56:08 GMT -5
I am with you that we are all in the impression stage with the Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC. And I am quite impressed. I never doubted that you did not do your homework and from what little I know about you, I would figure that you simply turned back some pages in a notebook of yours to recollect on some Data, and started the process of this bullet. But at the same time, I also think that more than likely you had known from your compilation of experience that there was possibly a bullet that would most likely produce the results we are seeing.
I have a question or two for learning and education for myself. Did you have a velocity specific range in mind also? And did you have a specific bullet alloy mix in mind also?
Charles
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