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Post by Lee Martin on Apr 18, 2018 21:59:05 GMT -5
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Post by Lee Martin on Apr 18, 2018 22:00:25 GMT -5
Martin Shooting Session #1 ______________________________________________ A photo of the powder coating process - these were dry tumbled in Eastwood’s lime green; no plastic BBs. Baking was for 20 minutes at 400 degrees. I prefer the non-stick cooking mats.  Sizing and gas-checking was done on a 0.358” push-through die. The gun used for testing was NIB .357 Maximum I acquired in December. Like David’s, it is the 10.5” version. Short of unhooking one trigger leg, no modifications have been made. The forcing cone is factory 11 degree.  David suggested I install a Bowen target sight to leverage the narrow notch. I plan on doing that shortly. The 194 gr Bradshaw-Martin SWC took flight on January 27th. I loaded them light using IMR 4227 and a CCI #400 primer. A mild roll crimp was applied over the front driving band. First, some speed figures (average of five shots) 15.5 IMR 4227 = 1,323 fps 16.5 IMR 4227 = 1,360 fps 17.0 IMR 4227 = 1,409 fps I sighted the gun at 50 yards on a 10" plate. Was eager to get to 100 yards, so I didn't run five shot groups at that distance. However, the last 3 I fired to confirm POI fit under 1.5". The gun hit 4" high at 50. Moving to the 100 yard plate with a few clicks of elevation, I held on the bottom edge of the steel. The front sight is a good width, giving a slither of white to the sides of the blade (since I held 6:00, the white was above the top sight edge, not to each side. Nevertheless, it helped me hold consistent horizontal). 5-shots benchrest rested @ 100 yards. 17.0 IMR 4227. This is the one of the tightest open sight groups I’ve shot with a revolver at 100. Spread = ~3 inches. The middle impact are two hits.  It adjusted the rear sight upward and laid down this group (same load). Spread is just over 4 inches.  Gas-checks and lead recovered under the plate indicate they’re hitting flush. Note the concentricity of the outter rings:    Takeaways in my report back to David that evening: 1) The gun is a shooter 2) The bullets show promise 3) I had a fantastic day pulling the trigger. I cannot shoot like that on-demand. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by Lee Martin on Apr 18, 2018 22:02:42 GMT -5
Bradshaw Report #1 ________________________________ Wind howls out of the north this should-be-beautiful Saturday, 14 April 2018. Sharpshooting abides no alibis, thus we set up to shoot the Bradshaw-Martin Maximum 194 SWC GC against a 7 o’clock, 10-15 mph wind, in 25-degree “springtime” weather. Target: pigs painted on cardboard @ 100 yards. Sights: Ruger SRM front .107-inch target blade; rear .091-inch notch.  11-degree cone (left), and 5-degree cone. Both to be found on Blackhawk .357 Maximums. Bradshaw prefers a short 11-degree cone.  Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC over 18.5/IMR 4227, Federal nickel 1.605” case, WSR primer. COL=1.960-inch. 100 yards 5x5=3.7”  Wind flag stapled to target board @ 100 yards. 7 o’clock wind 10-15 mph; temperature Fahrenheit mid-20’s. Since wind had a bit of whip to it, a good test for cast, powder coat 194-grain  5-shots @ 100 yards 5x5=3.2” 4x5=1.2” T/C Contender Super 14 .357 Maximum; T/C 4x scope. Pachmayr Gripper with Pachmayr Contender Forend. Load, .357 Maximum Bradshaw-Martin Maximum 194 SWC Gas Check; cast, powder coat. 18.5/IMR 4227. Federal nickel 1.605 case. Winchester Small Rifle primer. Redding dies, light roll crimp. COL=1.960”. T/C backup to firing Ruger Maximum. Despite faster LOCK TIME and 4x scope, T/C shot only 0.5-inch tighter than iron sight Ruger for 5-shots @ 100 yards.  Found, laying on grass after snowmelt, Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC. Powder and charge unknown. Fired from Ruger .357 Maximum early April, 2018.  200 yards with .357 Maximum and Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC about to kick off in a light 6 o’clock, 6:30 breeze. A few inches of mid-April snow fell overnight.  Five shots on target @ 200 yards, Ruger .357 Maximum with SRM narrow front and rear sights. 200 yards, .357 Maximum Cast, powder coat, Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC GC over 18.5/IMR 4227; WSR primer in Federal 1.605” case. COL=1.960”. Sight picture: upper third of body. Elevation: 48-clicks. Same target is shot @ 100 yards with 24-clicks. Ruger elevation screw has 16-clicks per rev. Hold: upper third of body. 5x5=8.1” @ 200 yds. Iron sights offer no forgiveness at long range. Squeeze is timed to clarity of sight picture.  David’s last shots of the day, 15 April 2018. Shoot all chambers. Ruger .357 Maximum, 10-1/2” with short 11-degree cone; 1:16” twist. Sights: SRM prototype .107" front, with .091” rear notch. Elevation: 48-clicks, 16-clicks per rev screw. POA=POI (with 4-6” wind drift). Load: cast, powder coat, Bradshaw-Martin Maximum 194 SWC GC; 18.5/IMR 4227; Federal nickel 1.605” case; WSR. Light roll crimp on front band. COL=1.960”. 200 yards, barrel & butt rest 6x6=6.1” 5x6=4.6” 4x6=2.6"  We have a lot of material to post. I hope to get more published tomorrow night. -Lee www.singleactions.com"Chasing perfection five shots at a time" |
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 18, 2018 23:01:52 GMT -5
Indications the bullet wants to shoot. Rather than go for a bunch of loads, at present we push 18.5/4227. Lee reduced thickness of the powder coat on his second batch of bullets. Each of us had shot some respectable groups @ 100 yards, so I wasn’t quite ready for a thinner coating on the second batch. Now, with results coming from 200 as well as 100 yards, it is evident Lee made the right decision.
Have looked in vain for fired bullets on the snow. This includes snowshoe walks up to 240 yards behind target board. The Bradshaw-Martin 194 SWC tracks straight after penetrating 3/4” plywood and skimming snow for extended distances. Then, walking back from changing targets Saturday 14 April ‘18, I spotted a bullet laying on the grass. Uniform engraving of rifling from the Ruger Maximum. Gas check intact, squarely on heal of bullet. Light dent in meplat from ground contact, light abrasion of POWDER COAT, possibly a combination of penetrating plywood and skimming ground beneath snow.
David Bradshaw
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Post by sixshot on Apr 19, 2018 0:03:54 GMT -5
David, thanks for the report on the primers. I have noticed that the Federal nickel cases I have are thinner, hence more capacity than the Starline I've been using the last couple of years. I still have them & I'll probably compare accuracy/velocity between the two sometime this week.
I'm guessing we will see an up tick in the interest of the 357 Maximum after you & Lee finish up with your testing of the new BradLee bullet. I sure wish Ruger would take another look at the Maximum, maybe Lipsey's could jump in. This is a caliber that's too good to lose for the revolver shooters. Thanks for doing this.
Dick
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Post by contender on Apr 19, 2018 7:29:47 GMT -5
I've been following this here & over on the Ruger Forum. I can say I'm impressed, as I think this bullet design actually proves the potential of the Maxi as it was hoped for when it was introduced. Sometimes a gun can be built, yet the ammo components may not be up to the real potential. (And vis-a-versa!)
This detailed testing, even with it's starting points of limited experimentation so far, points to the very real possibility of it now proving what Bill wanted this caliber & gun to actually do. Sadly, those folks who felt the lighter bullets at warp speeds & hot powders caused issues enough to piss off Bill. And the shooting world lost an excellent firearm,, that was designed for specific purposes.
I've always had a soft spot for the Maxi, as I felt it was a well designed long range handgun,,, capable of a lot of serious shooting. And with the design of the Ruger,,, it's comfortable to shoot.
This combined effort proves a lot.
I truly thank both Lee & David in this venture.
And as I've mentioned on the Ruger Forum; "I want a mold!"
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 19, 2018 7:52:57 GMT -5
"I sure wish Ruger would take another look at the Maximum....”
----sixshot
*****
Dick..... Bill Ruger smiled frequently during meetings after shooting the SRM prototypes and afterwards, over cocktails and dinner. He felt good about the project.
In talking about the frame, after Bill, Jr. suggested lengthening the SRM frame, and lengthening the cartridge case to 1.660-inch, Bill, Sr. said,” David, we have reached the point where, to lengthen the frame is a lateral move."
In other words, much easier for a manufacturer of Ruger’s capability than for a smaller outfit. That the length of the SRM frame was arrived at by Bill and Bill, Jr. Rugers, senior and junior, were ready to make it longer, to accommodate a longer cylinder. I resisted, fearful that the tapering (thinner) BOTTOM STRAP would weaken the frame. None of us were ready to degrade the classic lines to thicken the front end of the bottom strap. (As is done on the Magnum Research BFR, a beefier, stronger, aesthetically weaker single action.) Neither Bill nor Bill, Jr. shared my apprehension for the strength of a longer frame. They relented, and the SRM continued as the model for production.
There are a few changes I would suggest----only with the manufacturer, none of which concern STRENGTH.
The Ruger .357 Maximum is a complete aesthetic statement, and its beauty put a twinkle in Bill Ruger’s eye.
David Bradshaw
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Post by paul105 on Apr 19, 2018 8:11:50 GMT -5
Lee, David -- always enjoy your experimentation and photo essays -- this one is no exception. Looking forward to next installment(s).
I've been considering the addition of a Maximum, this may have finally pushed me over the edge.
Thanks for all the effort.
Paul
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Post by 41freak on Apr 19, 2018 8:31:46 GMT -5
A stainless SRM with the 10" barrel and unfluted cylinder gets my vote I would buy a couple of them. (Maybe a shorter barrel for hunting as well.)
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chaz
.30 Stingray
Posts: 150
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Post by chaz on Apr 19, 2018 8:58:46 GMT -5
I have a pair of Sevilles 7.5" and 10.5" been wanting a mold from MountainMolds for the last decade, just never had the extra cash yet...maybe this year. Great stuff Gentlemen!
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 19, 2018 9:28:09 GMT -5
“... stainless SRM with the 10" barrel and unfitted cylinder... a shorter barrel for hunting...”
-----41freak
*****
There were seven SRMs made, prototypes we shot extensively. Five with 10-1/2” barrels, two 7-1/2”. Actually, two were not shot, one 10-1/2 and one 7-1/2. The unfired guns were saved for comparative measurement. We pounded all sorts of experimental ammunition through the others. Slow powders only. Not one round loaded with fast or medium powder. The prototypes are serial numbered SRM-1 through SRM-7. There is no SRM production gun. Ruger made one stainless steel .357 Maximum, which appears in one of my photo essays (Vol. series published by Lee).
Sig Himmelmann made his Seville in .357 Maximum, stainless with unfluted cylinder, some of which remain in circulation.
The .357 Maximum is not a short barrel cartridge. The 10-1/2” was by far the choice for silhouette and, by extension, for hunting. Not that a 7-1/2” won’t work.
David Bradshaw
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Post by 41freak on Apr 19, 2018 11:44:48 GMT -5
“... stainless SRM with the 10" barrel and unfitted cylinder... a shorter barrel for hunting...” -----41freak ***** There were seven SRMs made, prototypes we shot extensively. Five with 10-1/2” barrels, two 7-1/2”. Actually, two were not shot, one 10-1/2 and one 7-1/2. The unfired guns were saved for comparative measurement. We pounded all sorts of experimental ammunition through the others. Slow powders only. Not one round loaded with fast or medium powder. The prototypes are serial numbered SRM-1 through SRM-7. There is no SRM production gun. Ruger made one stainless steel .357 Maximum, which appears in one of my photo essays (Vol. series published by Lee). Sig Himmelmann made his Seville in .357 Maximum, stainless with unfluted cylinder, some of which remain in circulation. The .357 Maximum is not a short barrel cartridge. The 10-1/2” was by far the choice for silhouette and, by extension, for hunting. Not that a 7-1/2” won’t work. David Bradshaw I am not aware of the differences in the SRM other than they were prototypes and the production guns. I have shot 1 Ruger 357 max as well as a couple of Dan Wesson 357 max guns, I have seen the Seville but never had a chance to buy one yet. I almost bought a DW 740 but the deal fell thru. I love all this detail you, Lee and alot of others share on this site it is always a pleasure to read all the posts and discussions. I always learn things from everyone here. |
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Post by bradshaw on Apr 19, 2018 12:11:10 GMT -5
“.... I almost bought a DW 740....”
41freak
*****
The Dan Wesson Arms Model 40 Vent was released with two 8” barrels, rifled 1:14-inch. Mine, along with others I tried, were brilliantly accurate. These barrels shot the Hornady 358 200 grain Spire Point very accurately @ 200 meters. Soon, however, DWA switched to a 1:16 twist for the M40. Folk at DWA told me there were quality problems with the 1:14. I cannot verify that; IHMSA silhouetters with 1:14 M40’s loved them. The 1:16 twist handles Hornady .358 200 Round Nose fine, but under-spins the 200 Spire Point.
By the time Dan Wesson introduced a stainless .357 Maximum----Model 740----the revolver came with 1:18-3/4” twist. My guess, as purse strings tightened, the 1:18-3/4” twist of the Model 15 .357 Mag became the twist for their Maximum, as well.
Note
* Stainless Dan Wessons have chrome moly barrels, usually nickel plated.
* Federal stopped production of .357 Maximum ammo due to spitting in the Dan Wesson.
David Bradshaw
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Post by sixshot on Apr 19, 2018 13:29:11 GMT -5
David, I agree about the wind, I'll take snow anytime over wind & we always have wind in Idaho. I did manage 3 Rock Chucks with my 10.5 Ruger yesterday but couldn't get to any of them, they fell down in the Lava crevices & many can't be retrieved. I wanted to see what my HP's were doing damage wise but no luck.
I'm sure those Gangrene bullets of yours & Lee's would make a real impression as well. Very nice shooting by both of you. Sure hope Lipsey's or someone from Ruger is keeping up with this, people are interested in a low recoil, long range revolver with heavy bullets.
Dick
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Post by potatojudge on Apr 19, 2018 15:58:09 GMT -5
Hope not to contribute too much to thread drift here, but the Max as an aesthetic statement is a certainty. Other makers have made and make stretch frame single actions- Seville, BFR, Gary Reeder's stretch frames, etc. None look "right" with the Seville coming closest and the rest missing the mark The above is a factory 10 inch, the lower has been owned by other members here and was converted to a Bisley 414 Gates using a re-chambered factory cylinder. There are many variations of a great looking and shooting gun to be found in the Ruger Maximum frame. I would think that with Lipseys and Turnbull involved Ruger could turn out a "premium" hunting revolver priced to compete with the BFR. A lengthened cylinder to fill the frame window is the only functional change I'd ask for. I don't cast, but as much as I shoot the max it'd be worth buying the mold and sending it out to have bullets made. Results are looking great and I appreciate the work and educational posts. Looking forward to where this goes.  |
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