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Post by geezerd on May 15, 2017 7:11:40 GMT -5
To those of you that have a 357 Maximum, has anybody fired standard 357 mag ammo in them and how did it perform ? ----------- GeezerD
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Post by cherokeetracker on May 15, 2017 7:41:35 GMT -5
Yes I have fired 357 mags in my maximum. It was just like David Bradshaw said it would be,, there was some accuracy loss. Why maybe he can explain. The groups opened up and I even had some flyers.
Charles
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Post by mhblaw on May 15, 2017 11:36:02 GMT -5
I have not shot 357 mags in my Maxies, but I do shoot 44 Specials in a 44 Mag and 41 Specials in a 41 Mag. If a good load in the shorter cartridge it seems to shoot as well in the longer chambering. Would expect the same in your situation.
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Post by oddshooter on May 15, 2017 12:13:17 GMT -5
The accuracy when shooting the 357 magnum in a Ruger Maximum was disappointing? Maybe? Compared to what? It took me a moment.
I was not comparing it to other 357 Magnums wheelguns, but to the Maximum wheelgun shooting maximum rounds at distance. Unfair comparison.
The maximum round has awesome accuracy out at distance; the magnum round not so much.
Compared to standard 357 Magnum wheelguns, it has terrific accuracy with 357 mag loads.
Prescut
Note: The longer bullet jump to the lands from the shorter cartridge may or may not impart small wobble.
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Post by bradshaw on May 15, 2017 15:20:36 GMT -5
As with many things REVOLVER, one answer may not fit all examples. Some Ruger .357 Maximums shoot .357 Mags very well, .38s not far behind. Other revolvers start bullets from the shorter cases less straight, for less accuracy.
To guide .38 & .357 through Maximum chamber:
* Smooth LEADE between chamber wall and exit hole..
* Firm, straight chamber EXIT HOLES (throats).
* Good chamber-to-bore alignment (minimal offset).
* Smooth, concentric (preferably short) forcing cone.
I may haul out 600-00018 this summer for another look at .38s and .357s in the Maximum. Many .357 Maximums were made with a 5-degree forcing cone in place of the standard 11-degree cone. (We keep hearing folk proclaim the 11-degree forcing cone an “improvement” over the factory cone. Not once have I seen named in such a statement the angle of the factory cone. In all probability the factory cone was 11-degrees to start with, as the 11-degree cone is a dinosaur. The problem with the 5-degree cone is not the angle, it is the depth to which these are often cut, leaving the bullet unsupported between exit hole and groove. To judge by the junk that passes for a forcing cone, only a small percentage of persons who cut forcing cones know what they’re doing. I don’t care how long someone has been in manufacturing or working on guns, the forcing cone requires respect, if not understanding.
A heavy bullet or one with a long wheelbase may warrant accuracy from a .38 or .357 in an otherwise uncooperative Maximum.
David Bradshaw
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Post by geezerd on May 15, 2017 19:03:53 GMT -5
As with many things REVOLVER, one answer may not fit all examples, Some Ruger .357 Maximums shoot .357 Mags with aplomb, with .38s not far behind, while other examples start bullets from the shorter cases less straight, for less accuracy. To guide .38 & .357 through Maximum chamber:* Smooth LEADE between chamber wall and exit hole.. * Firm, straight chamber EXIT HOLES (throats). * Good chamber-to-bore alignment (minimal offset). * Smooth, concentric (preferably short) forcing cone. I may haul out 600-00018 this summer for another look at .38s and .357s in the Maximum. Many .357 Maximums were made with a 5-degree forcing cone in place of the standard 11-degree cone. (We keep hearing folk proclaim the 11-degree forcing cone as an “improvement” over a factory cone. Not once have I seen named in such a statement the angle of the factory cone. In all probability the factory cone was 11-degrees to start with, as the 11-degree cone is a dinosaur. The problem with the 5-degree cone is not the angle, it is the depth to which these are often cut, leaving the bullet unsupported between exit hole and groove. To judge by the junk that passes for a forcing cone, only a small percentage of persons who cut forcing cones know what they’re doing. I don’t care how long someone has been in manufacturing or working on guns, the forcing cone requires understanding. A heavy bullet or one with a long wheelbase may improve accuracy of a .38 or .357 in an otherwise uncooperative Maximum. David Bradshaw David - Thank you for the response. My question has to do with shooting standard 357 loads in a rifle chambered for 357 maximum. I have a Ruger 77/357 and was thinking that if rechambered to 357 maximum, how much it would effect standard 357 loads when fired in the longer chamber. The 357 maximum loads would have to be single loaded but should perform well out of the 18.5 inch barrel. ----------- GeezerD |
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Post by bradshaw on May 15, 2017 21:28:10 GMT -5
GeezerD.... during work on the revolver, Bill Ruger, Jr., had a Number 1 single shot made in .357 Maximum. The cartridge is a stormer in a single shot, as COL is not an issue and velocity is high, with light recoil. You may or may not suffer accuracy loss with .357 Mag in a rechambered M77/357. The chamber is straight----no taper----for the.38 Special, .357 Mag, and .357 Maximum. The LEADE between chamber wall and exit hole should be a gradual, perfectly smooth ramp cut at a low angle. I’d call Mike Bellm of custom T/C fame for a pointer or two on chambering. Done well, you have a magazine fed .357 Mag repeater that doubles as a .357 Maximum single shot, shooting both accurately. a Maximum single shot with Magnum backup.
Before reaming, slug the bore to check for looseness and tightness and then sandbag @ 100 yards with 180 grain bullets.
The .357 Maximum is no slouch in a firmly dimensioned sixgun. The first game collected with the Maximum, a buck stepping on the gas through hardwoods, took a Hornady 158 JHP through the lungs, the little pill mousing along at close to 2,000 fps from the 10-1/2” revolver. 180s mosey at 1,600, with room for more at pressures well below the revolver’s cruising ability. Mike Bellm gleans 2,400 fps from 180's in 24-inch barrel. The late sharpshooter and IHMSA Alaskan silhouetter Tom McGuire laid down a grizzly with his Dan Wesson Model 40 .357 Maximum stoked with the Speer .358 180 Flat Point, but then Tom was the real deal with a sixgun. Your little M77 carbine, chambered for .357 Maximum, should be able to send a .358 200 grain round nose .35 Remingtion bullet mossing down through...
David Bradshaw
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coogs
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,684
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Post by coogs on May 16, 2017 5:51:55 GMT -5
Mornin' David.................the man does know the Max..............great insight.
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Post by geezerd on May 16, 2017 5:53:16 GMT -5
GeezerD.... during work on the revolver, Bill Ruger, Jr., had a Number 1 single shot made in . 357 Maximum. The cartridge is a stormer in a single shot, as COL is not an issue and velocity is high, with light recoil. You may or may not suffer accuracy loss with .357 Mag in a rechambered M77/357. The chamber is straight----no taper----for the.38 Special, .357 Mag, and .357 Maximum. The LEADE between chamber wall and exit hole should be a gradual, perfectly smooth ramp cut at a low angle. I’d call Mike Bellm of custom T/C fame for a pointer or two on chambering. Done well, you have a magazine fed .357 Mag repeater that doubles as a .357 Maximum single shot, shooting both accurately. a Maximum single shot with Magnum backup. Before reaming, slug the bore to check for looseness and tightness and then sandbag @ 100 yards with 180 grain bullets. The .357 Maximum is no slouch in a firmly dimensioned sixgun. The first game collected with the Maximum, a buck stepping on the gas through hardwoods, took a Hornady 158 JHP through the lungs, the little pill mousing along at close to 2,000 fps from the 10-1/2” revolver. 180s mosey at 1,600, with room for more at pressures well below the revolver’s cruising ability. Mike Bellm gleans 2,400 fps from 180's in 24-inch barrel. The late sharpshooter and IHMSA Alaskan silhouetter Tom McGuire laid down a grizzly with his Dan Wesson Model 40 .357 Maximum stoked with the Speer .358 180 Flat Point, but then Tom was the real deal with a sixgun. Your little M77 carbine, chambered for .357 Maximum, should be able to send a .358 200 grain round nose .35 Remingtion bullet mossing down through... David Bradshaw David - Thanks again, your input on this is of much value. Recently the state of Michigan allowed us to use pistol caliber carbines using straight walled cases of 35 caliber or larger for deer hunting in southern lower Michigan. To use the 200gr 35 remington bullet, I would think that the maximum chamber would need a longer throat. If that bullet could be driven fast enough to insure expansion, it would be a great deer load. I think the 180gr XTP could be driven to 2200 + fps out of a 357 maximum chambered carbine easily enough. Most of the deer taken in this part of the state are harvested at well under 100yds so, trajectory isn't an issue. I believe that I will go ahead with this project and see where it leads. ------------ GeezerD |
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Post by cherokeetracker on May 16, 2017 18:18:30 GMT -5
To those of you that have a 357 Maximum, has anybody fired standard 357 mag ammo in them and how did it perform ? ----------- GeezerD I didn't realize this was talking about a rifle or carbine. I was assuming the question was about a pistol, since this was in the singleaction section.
Charles
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Post by geezerd on May 17, 2017 7:27:39 GMT -5
I realize that this a single-action handgun forum but, there are a great number of people here that have experience with the 357 maximum so that is why I asked the question here. Since then I have discovered that the maximum brass can only be ejected from the 77/357 when the magazine is removed. I may just throat it longer or try 360 Dan Wesson cases, probably the former. I just want to get maximum performance out of 180gr XTP bullets, at least for the first shot with a magazine full of standard 357 loads in reserve. ------------- GeezerD
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Post by geezerd on May 17, 2017 10:15:29 GMT -5
GeezerD.... during work on the revolver, Bill Ruger, Jr., had a Number 1 single shot made in . 357 Maximum. The cartridge is a stormer in a single shot, as COL is not an issue and velocity is high, with light recoil. You may or may not suffer accuracy loss with .357 Mag in a rechambered M77/357. The chamber is straight----no taper----for the.38 Special, .357 Mag, and .357 Maximum. The LEADE between chamber wall and exit hole should be a gradual, perfectly smooth ramp cut at a low angle. I’d call Mike Bellm of custom T/C fame for a pointer or two on chambering. Done well, you have a magazine fed .357 Mag repeater that doubles as a .357 Maximum single shot, shooting both accurately. a Maximum single shot with Magnum backup. Before reaming, slug the bore to check for looseness and tightness and then sandbag @ 100 yards with 180 grain bullets. The .357 Maximum is no slouch in a firmly dimensioned sixgun. The first game collected with the Maximum, a buck stepping on the gas through hardwoods, took a Hornady 158 JHP through the lungs, the little pill mousing along at close to 2,000 fps from the 10-1/2” revolver. 180s mosey at 1,600, with room for more at pressures well below the revolver’s cruising ability. Mike Bellm gleans 2,400 fps from 180's in 24-inch barrel. The late sharpshooter and IHMSA Alaskan silhouetter Tom McGuire laid down a grizzly with his Dan Wesson Model 40 .357 Maximum stoked with the Speer .358 180 Flat Point, but then Tom was the real deal with a sixgun. Your little M77 carbine, chambered for .357 Maximum, should be able to send a .358 200 grain round nose .35 Remingtion bullet mossing down through... David Bradshaw David - Thanks for the tip on Mike Bellm. It is an outstanding source of info on the 357 maximum as to its use in rifles. All of my questions and then some were answered on his site. I am going to have an issue with ejection of 357 max cases in the 77/357 that may require some modification to the rifle but, I think it can be done. --------------- Thanks again, GeezerD |
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Post by bradshaw on May 17, 2017 13:12:07 GMT -5
"I am going to have an issue with ejection of 357 max cases in the 77/357 that may require some modification to the rifle...”
----GeezerD
*****
Whatever you do, don’t taper the chamber. Since the Model 77/357 magazine cannot take .357 Maximum. Feed as a single shot the long rounds. Am not familiar with your 77/357. You may be able to increase bolt throw by trimming the BOLT STOP. If the M-77/357 has a FIXED EJECTOR, you may be able to shorten it. If it has a spring-loaded BUTTON EJECTOR, cut a coil.
David Bradshaw
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Joe S.
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,517
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Post by Joe S. on May 17, 2017 22:29:53 GMT -5
My max shoots all well. But i get leading shooting 38s with cast boolits.
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Post by bradshaw on May 18, 2017 7:27:34 GMT -5
My max shoots all well. But i get leading shooting 38s with cast boolits. ***** Joe.... never thought twice about firing .357 Mag and .38 Special in the Ruger Maximum. Couldn’t raise an eyebrow from Bill Ruger and Bill, Jr. However, I avoided cast bullets for the leading potential you mention. Providing the individual revolver is accurate with one or both of the shorter rounds, the Special and magnum are viable options for persons who want to shoot their Maximum on an indoor range, or in absence of Maximum ammo, etc. For light loads with lead bullets, deep seating in.357 Maximum brass with medium powder will provide the low-power satisfaction with reduced chamber fouling. David Bradshaw |
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