Kahr vs Para LDA?

[dakotadogman]

Thinking I'd like to get a small double action auto and these two are high on the list of options...
Not interested in a glock... I like to enjoy looking at my guns; not interested in a 1911 variant; not my thing
Primary purpose will be daily cc (looking to move up from sometimes CC)
Would be satisfied with .40 S&W or .45

Anybody used both? or have one or the other?
Which is "narrower" (most narrowest for the English guys)?

God Bless,

[Otony]

Kahr is much narrower, and in my opinion, has the better trigger of the two by far.

Cannot say anything about longevity or reliability as I owned both for too short a time to comment. Both worked well in the short run if that helps.

[Len]

I have a Para Carry 9 it is fantastic very easy too shoot double action accurate and best of all easily concealed. I would buy it again.

[zeus]

To me, there is not even a comparison between a Kahr and a Para. I strongly prefer the Kahr. I've owned two different 45s from Kahr and they are both tackdrivers. I used to carry a P45 and now one of my two "all the time" carry guns is the PM45 which fits well in my front pants pocket. At fifteen yards offhand, it will put a complete mag in one hole basically. one of the most accurate auto guns I've ever fired. My P45 was the same. For everyday carry, the PM40 may be the better choice as its slightly smaller than the 45. Don't know your specific needs. The Kahr is usually more expensive but in my opinion, its worth it.

[Markbo]

dogman, you don't mention either model # so a recommendation can't be made without knowing exactly what you are looking at.

And not to split hairs, but the Para LDA IS a 1911 variant. Just happens to be double action.

[the priest]

Oct 11, 2009 14:22:33 GMT -5 Markbo said:

And not to split hairs, but the Para LDA IS a 1911 variant. Just happens to be double action.

That's what I was thinking.

Not to give you ideas when you're not asking,....but Gunblast has a review of a new little Taurus pistol that you may want to read. Accuracy was reportedly excellent, and it's tiny. IIRC they called it 'best pistol yet from Taurus'. FWIW.

[dakotadogman]

Oct 11, 2009 14:22:33 GMT -5 Markbo said:

dogman, you don't mention either model # so a recommendation can't be made without knowing exactly what you are looking at.

And not to split hairs, but the Para LDA IS a 1911 variant. Just happens to be double action.

I really want to post something right now... but it is best if I don't always say what I'm thinking...

Instead of assuming the question can't be answered because I didn't get specific enough... perhaps look for something common ground that you can speak too... do you own a Para LDA? Do you own a Kahr? Which trigger is better? Which do you prefer? Why? Assuming apples to apples is okay in a generic forum.

Otony, Len, Zeus... thank you guys I appreciate your input.

Markbo & Priest; I give up... last time I mentioned on a site like this the LDA & 1911 in the same post I got chewed out for stupid to think that "just cause the frame was similar it was one". I've been reading the Rag's since they (LDA) first showed up... I know the history, & somewhere still have Bart S. first impressions on it (LDA). Please allow me to get specific enough so you know exactly what I am saying. I DO NOT WANT to get into a spitting match about NOT wanting to buy another single action 1911 for CC. I am not intersted in buying any company's Single action 1911, and I don't want this thread to degenerate into why I don't want to carry a Single Action 1911, not the new Kimber, not the old Colt, not a 3", 4.5", 5" or 14" single action 1911...
Right or wrong, when I say 1911 I mean (and am normally understood by common people) to mean the single action grandpa brought home from the war in his boots.

Sorry, but this type of "posturing" has driven me away from handgun sites before.

PS - Did a little checking on my own this afternoon since I had some time... turns out that Kahr's advertized thicknes is between 1.01" and .94" depending on .45 or .40. Not enough difference within their model's to make a hill of beans of difference on. Para does not list their thickness' on the website that I can find (thinking single stack).

Rant over. my mouth.
God Bless,

[Len]

Dakotadogman

My Carry Nine is .915 at the slide it is single stacked and my gip frame is about 1.120

I cannot comment on the Kahr as I have no experience with it.

If you can find a dealer with a Para see if he will let you try the trigger.

I also like being able to carry with the hammer down I was never a fan of cocked and locked. By the way the Para is double action only.

Len

[Gary @ R&G]

The LDA's have a nice trigger. I like the Kahrs. I made the mistake of detailing stripping an LDA I took on trade. I had hell getting it back together. Some of the parts in the LDA system are quite small and appear fragile although I have not heard of any failures and they have been around awhile. It concerned me enough that I took it off my potential CCW list.

Of course I carry a cocked and locked 1911 the way JMB designed them. Just my posture.

[zeus]

Having said how much I like the Kahr, I guess I should mention that the other carry gun that is always with me is a cocked and locked 1911, or.......I hate to say, a glock somedays, just depends on my attitude that day . My reasoning for the 1911 is that they just fit my hand better, I shoot them better as a result. Do I like carrying the heft, no, but you get used to it. One day, I may catch Gary in a weak moment or he may find something that he prefers and I may get the one that he talks about in his post I should at least get first right of refusal, right Gary??? I do love that little gun

I have friends with the Kahr 9s and 40s and they love them. If you look around on the internet, these arm chair gurus out there will talk all about the Kahrs and reliability issues. Its BS as far as I'm concerned, or better yet, operator error, not the fault of the firearm. When my two were new, I made sure they were empty and would rack them viciously until I got tired for a few minutes every afternoon after work. They are very tight from the factory and they suggest a 200 round breakin and probably in reality need it. But, you should shoot that many at least prior to carrying it to be honest. However, before I was able these to the range or carry them, I did that every afternoon with a little oil. It may have been a waste of time but neither gun ever failed to operate and I've yet to have a malfunction. Fast forward a few months on the PM45....I've read about a lot of malfunctions......A fellow shooter on this board cleared the plate rack with my PM45 at 20-25 yards and proceeded to let a buddy shoot it. It malfuntioned every shot for that shooter. He obviously shoots with a very limp wrist and it affected the slide function in my opinion. I have tried to make it do that and have been unable to do so, so needless to say, I was shocked. However, with the right shooter, a 1911 will do it just about every time also. But, just be aware that there are lots of crap reports out on the web from so called experts on the Kahr guns. I've been very happy with them and they have been phenomenal shooters in my experience. I haven't tried any of the lower priced versions like the CW series so I can't say how they are.....

[Otony]

Darn Markbo, you gotta lighten up Francis.

For the record, while the LDA "looks" like a 1911 variant, the function drill, trigger pull, assembly and dissasembly all differ radically.

The frame, slide, trigger, disconnector, sear, trigger/disconnector spring, grip safety, hammer & strut, are all completely different from a 1911, with zero commonality. There are extra "things" inside besides those altered parts, a variety of springs and widgets that occur in no 1911 John M. ever thought of. Now what have I left out? Oh yes, just this. If the frame, slide and fire controls don't interchange, it just looks like a 1911, it isn't a 1911.

Don't bore me with the fact that "some" 1911 parts will work. The HEART of the thing is totally different. Totally. I can install "some" Colt SAA parts on a New Model Ruger, like barrels (certain years), gripframes (with a lot of work), and ejector rod housings (again with some work). A Vaquero and a Colt look similar, does that make the Ruger a SAA? Nope. Do they operate the same? No, not the loading drill or the safety functions, and no fire control part will interchange whatsoever.

Point is while it may look like a 1911, it darn sure doesn't run like one, or feel like one (trigger) or take down like one. Yes, I am being repetitive. It is a different gun that happens to use a similar cosmetic style and allows for the interchange of some parts. It was designed this way to appeal to 1911 users who are not interested in, gasp, a Glock, and to allow enough secondary parts to intechange as an econonmy measure. It is NOT a 1911.

He asked about width, ownership, and usage. No need to pontificate if you don't know the answers to simple questions.

[the priest]

I've owned both and still have a Kahr. The reason I didn't comment above is because tony and zues already said what I had to say,.....the Kahr is the easy pick. Better trigger, at least in my instance, slimmer, and one heck of a lot lighter. it's not even close for picking a carry pistol. So I do know the answer to some simple questions even if it's just an opinion.

As for the rest,.....I only mentioned the Taurus because you didn't say anything about ONLY picking from the two models and Mr. Quinn seemed pretty impressed by it. The other thing,.........the para IS a variant by definition. A variant is something that VARIES from the original. It need not have all of the same parts to be a variant,.....it needs to have those to be the actual thing or a copy.

So you take a new corvette and throw in a Shelby produced engine, trans, shocks, etc. (or even a Ford engine, etc.) Is it a still corvette? Yup...........it's a variant of the original but it sure is.

Not that any of that really matters and I think the dogman got a little offended over something which in my opionion wasn't meant as posturing or a jab or whatever. Easy cheesy.

Intended as posture free.

[Markbo]

Dogman I am sorry if by asking another question in order to give you the most informed answer I can insulted your gentle sensiblities.

I am not posturing. I am not goading. I am not suggesting anything you don't want. I was trying to help. BUT... I am not whoever you have a grudge against. Don't take it out on me that you were not clear with your question.

It's JUST like saying, "I want to buy a Ford or a Chevy... which one would you choose?". I repeat... not enough information for me to be able to reply.

and OTony. Relax dude. Darn Markbo, you gotta lighten up Francis.
Lighten up from what? My post was very calm and clear and they YOU go off on ME!

...No need to pontificate if you don't know the answers to simple questions....

Take your own advice... I made a statement, you wrote an article! If you want to debate is a Corvette with a Ford rear end and tranny and a hemi engine still a corvette take it to another thread. Jeeze Tell me to lighten up then have a meltdown.

[Otony]

"Tell me to lighten up then have a meltdown. "

Tone is easily misinterpreted in written material. You have done so admirably in this case.

Lighten up Francis!

[dakotadogman]

"Anybody used both? or have one or the other?
Which is "narrower" (most narrowest for the English guys)?"

Sorry these questions weren't simple & clear enough for you markbo... seemed easy enough to the guys on the primarily upland hunting site that I regularly visit.

I ain't gentle & I ain't sensitive... but I ain't going to be thuded into a corner about "it is a 1911 / it ain't a 1911". Relationships work better when everyone understands each other... This place is suppose to be enjoyable & educational... getting talked down at accomplishes neither for me. Maybe in your part of the world what you said wouldn't be taken that way... mine it would. Now we know each other.

The LDA uses one trigger system. The Kahr uses one trigger system. As near as I can tell the LDA has one frame width (not counting single stack / double stack). The Kahr appears to have two frame widths. We may not be able to compare Ford to Chevy; but we can compare Ford & Chevy Pickups to a 1980 IH Scout Terra. The shorter wheel base can turn circles around them. I never asked what you would choose... I asked about experience with them & width.


Priest... I have no problem with the mention of the Taurse... but I am not in agreement about the Corevett. At the local toy store they have a 1963 IH Scout for $19,000... with total Chevy under the hood. No scout guy will buy it. Same attitude I get from guys about the LDA... won't buy it "It ain't a 1911".

Sorry this thread degenerated. Powers that be can sure feel free to can it whenever... I've got what I was looking for.
God Bless,