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Post by AxeHandle on Dec 17, 2016 9:25:47 GMT -5
Traded for a new Nighthawk. This one is a five inch gun. Virtually new. Original owner bought it in another shop, fired it 10 times, and didn't like it. The current same model gun on their web site has a dustcover rail. This one does not. Good thing too. I don't do 1911 dustcover rails. Pulled the slide off and checked out the lock-up. One of the perks of doing a lot of business with one shop is they have no aversion to me taking a $3400 gun apart. Gun is well fitted in all the places that matter. Pleased to see that it has the marvel disconnector cut that we've elaborated on in another thread. It will take me a while to bail it out. Here is a link to the proper page on Nighthawk's web site. Pics when I get it home. www.nighthawkcustom.com/pistols/enforcer
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Post by magman on Dec 17, 2016 9:50:05 GMT -5
Found one at a local shop for 2k. Still trying to decide if I need another brassflinger.
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 17, 2016 12:16:12 GMT -5
Stan.... unsure how any pistol costing appreciably more than the Les Baer 1911 Super Tac warrants the extra loot. There are Nighthawks out there, heaped with their owner’s praise, as this shooter has encountered two. For some reason neither Nighthawk shooter was much interested in putting them against the Les Baer @ 100 yards. Not sure why. To judge by the tariff, the Nighthawk should do nearly twice as well as the Les Baer. It cannot do twice as well in reliability, so the Nighthawk should be twice as accurate. The Les Baer has sandbagged 5-shot groups of under 3-inches @ 100 yards, witnessed in Louisiana and Alabama, with the Remington Golden Saber 230 JHP seated over 8.5/Accurate #5[/u][/b], another handled with Sierra bullets, and with factory Hornady XTP 230 JHP +P, and factory Federal Hydra-Shok 230 JHP. Factory Remington Golden Saber 230 JHP have shot into this exclusive company; if not it is right on the edge of cutting 3-inch extreme spread.
To be sure, such groups are fired under good light in dead air. A light breeze bends a handgun bullet at the distance of a football field. There is nothing easy about this shooting, leastwise for this shooter. Nevertheless, this shooting breeds confidence, which poise hones offhand precision.
Perhaps I should hold my tongue until firing a Nighthawk. Experience with an early Rock River 1911 puts it in league with accuracy & reliability of the Les Baer. However, my paw leans to the Les Baer. David Bradshaw
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Post by AxeHandle on Dec 17, 2016 14:49:49 GMT -5
Based on personal experiences I will write in open forum that Les Baer is an IDIOT. I've shot the best built by the best and can say adamantly that Les Baer has not, does not, and will never build the best.
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Post by foxtrapper on Dec 17, 2016 15:19:04 GMT -5
Where's that popcorn emoji...........lol
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Post by kings6 on Dec 17, 2016 17:29:25 GMT -5
All I can say is that this ought to be interesting as long as posts stay objective versus decisive.
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paulg
.375 Atomic
Posts: 2,420
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Post by paulg on Dec 18, 2016 6:30:52 GMT -5
Guess I'll really be in trouble when I bring a $4,200.00 Cabot home. Congrats Stan, hope you make that Nighthawk squawk! :-o
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Dec 18, 2016 8:03:32 GMT -5
Oh, Lord ....
May I say we can all smile, though, and lighten up ... 'cause 1-20-17 is coming!
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Post by bradshaw on Dec 18, 2016 8:55:43 GMT -5
axehandle----"Based on personal experiences... “
*** My respect for Les Baer pistols is based on shooting a half dozen, with uniformly excellent results. I’ve shot several custom 1911s in the four thousand dollar bracket, none of which came close. Persons have bought a Les Baer after shooting mine, and I’ve heard only words of appreciation afterward. I have not shot a Nighthawk. My friend Ben “Bear Man” Kilham made an observation years ago which rings in my ears when I shoot expensive junk: “They know how to make parts. They just don’t know how to put them together.”
Granted, Ben Kilham’s observation applied to a particular manufacturer----Springfield Armory----in the post-Colt tide of 1911s. Kilham’s words are prescient, as we continue to see well made hardware improperly fitted.
Manufacturers should have their feet held to the FIRING LINE. Please, axehandle, tell us of your experience. David Bradshaw
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Post by kings6 on Dec 18, 2016 10:45:31 GMT -5
Thank you Mr. Bradshaw, after I read your last post L was able to run out and retrieve my old Les Baer from the trash can before the local truck came to pick it up! Hopefully Axe will share his past experience as well. I know I seem to always pick something up when Stan starts sharing about the build features of his target 1911 guns and the reason behind them.
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Post by mike454 on Dec 18, 2016 11:43:54 GMT -5
I know Ax had a problem with the barrel fit on a Baer gun. I bought my two before Les raised his prices and found them to be a great value with great accuracy that has held up for many thousands of rounds. Congrats on the new Nighthawk!
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Post by zeus on Dec 18, 2016 17:22:22 GMT -5
I think LB makes a good gun and they shoot well. But the fine fit and finish details are better in the examples from Wilson and NH that I own. I like all three but the crooked sights and such should not be found on a gun costing what a LB does. I've had 3 brand new guns arrive with the rear sights machined crooked in the slide resulting in a canted look to the sight picture. Let's not get into the wording on the slides being slanted on a couple as that drives my OCD up a wall! The gripframe front to back is just slightly larger on a LB than the others and he doesn't do as deep of a undercut on them. Those two things result in a feel that is "blocker" than the others to my hands. Good guns though. I've never had one that wouldn't shoot well and they functioned well...as long as you throw away the factory mags or at least replace the internals. I've had issues fairly common with factory mags from LB. My issues with LB guns are mainly petty issues with cosmetics and fit/finish. Not function, they have all shot extremely well and been reliable from day one. Never a hiccup in any so for that reason alone, I'll keep buying them as they pop up.
Now, the price of a LB is much less than a usual WC or NH as well. So I guess take that into account. I still enjoy shooting my LB guns and really enjoy packing the little Stinger from his place. It shoots like a dream and just handles well.
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Post by AxeHandle on Dec 18, 2016 23:04:41 GMT -5
Met him face to face at his table at Bianchi... I'm thinking it was '87 but it could have been '92. My southern boy impression was that he was a rude jerk who I would never ask build me anything. Years later a personal friend had him build a gun that was delivered shooting a foot low at 20 feet. Baer fixed it but only after his feet were held to the fire. Fast forward 20+ years, I acquired a Baer in a trade. Fiddled with it a bit and find that the barrel lugs are camming on one side. None of this says that Baer can't build a good gun. It does tell me that doesn't always build well, he is a little slack on the ethics side, and can be an absolute butt when questioned about his work.
FWIW when we talk 1911 accuracy... How well you or I can shoot one isn't testing the gun. That is primarily shooter ability. Strap the beast in a ransom rest, pull out your best ammo and show me.
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Post by lscg on Dec 19, 2016 0:52:36 GMT -5
Met him face to face at his table at Bianchi... I'm thinking it was '87 but it could have been '92. My southern boy impression was that he was a rude jerk who I would never ask build me anything. Years later a personal friend had him build a gun that was delivered shooting a foot low at 20 feet. Baer fixed it but only after his feet were held to the fire. Fast forward 20+ years, I acquired a Baer in a trade. Fiddled with it a bit and find that the barrel lugs are camming on one side. None of this says that Baer can't build a good gun. It does tell me that doesn't always build well, he is a little slack on the ethics side, and can be an absolute butt when questioned about his work. FWIW when we talk 1911 accuracy... How well you or I can shoot one isn't testing the gun. That is primarily shooter ability. Strap the beast in a ransom rest, pull out your best ammo and show me. I've never met Les nor have I ever handled one of his guns but a good friend of mine had a heavyweight monolith built a couple of years ago and when he got it in hand he noticed a fair sized gap on the right side frame to slide fit. much larger than his Kimber or Dan Wesson have. and I believe the serrations on the rear of the slide were buggered up a little as well. after several emails and calls he finally got ahold of someone and was basically told the gap was the result of hand fitting and he could go pound sand for all they care.
I imagine they usually make a great 1911 but with an attitude like that I think i'd rather take my money elsewhere.
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Post by mike454 on Dec 19, 2016 8:17:15 GMT -5
Guess it all depends on where your coming from. My first 1911 was a Colt Gold Cup.The less said about it the better but the short version was that it wasn't that accurate or that reliable or that well fit. Had the reliably problem fixed and gave it to a friend with full disclosure about the accuracy. For less than 50% more money got a new 1.5" Baer and it was as good as the Colt was poor. If I'd started with a Wilson or NH is there a chance I wouldn't have as smitten with the Baer? Perhaps. Bought a longslide Baer next and had a question about the trigger pull. Called the company and when the lady who answered the phone couldn't provide an answer, she put on Les who seemed happy to help. Have also had a nice talk with Les at the NRA show. I've heard the stories about Les, and I don't doubt them, just hasn't been my experience.
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