paulg
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Post by paulg on Sept 16, 2016 18:43:18 GMT -5
Has anyone ever done a caliber conversion on the Smith Model 19? 41 special comes to mind. Could a 5 shot .44 special be done? I'm aware that could be the most stupid ass question ever but hey, at the least I might learn something.
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Aggie01
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Post by Aggie01 on Sept 16, 2016 21:56:05 GMT -5
The .357 is already hard on the barrel extension of a K frame. Not a lot of meat left there. You would need to step up to the L frame on a smith to get it done. Five shot 44's have been done on the security six.
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Post by ezekiel38 on Sept 17, 2016 0:28:10 GMT -5
Back in the late 70s-early 80s Vern Ewer dba Spokanguns Inc. built a few five shot 44 Spls on a Model 19 frame. Forcing cones were way too thin and Vern warned owners to not shoot anything that was above SAAMI spec on the guns. 15K psi! In 1980 a new one built by Ewer was selling close to the 1K price tag. If I were converting a Smith to another caliber it would be an L frame to 41 Spl or better yet just purchase a Model 69 44 Mag. I love mine!
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paulg
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Post by paulg on Sept 17, 2016 5:21:29 GMT -5
Back in the late 70s-early 80s Vern Ewer dba Spokanguns Inc. built a few five shot 44 Spls on a Model 19 frame. Forcing cones were way too thin and Vern warned owners to not shoot anything that was above SAAMI spec on the guns. 15K psi! In 1980 a new one built by Ewer was selling close to the 1K price tag. If I were converting a Smith to another caliber it would be an L frame to 41 Spl or better yet just purchase a Model 69 44 Mag. I love mine! I was just curious if had been done. I kinda figured correctly on the model 19 limitations Aggie mentioned. I did go the model 69 route and ordered one over two weeks ago through a local gun shop. As of yesterday it hadn't come in yet. |
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jgt
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Post by jgt on Sept 17, 2016 11:39:59 GMT -5
The first custom handgun I had built was at Spokanguns, then owned by Ed Christensen. I furnished a model 58 S&W, a 4" 44 special barrel, and my custom Clymer reamer. Ed swapped out the barrel, punched out the cylinder to 44 magnum, added a set of S&W rear adjustable sights, and rounded the butt. Then the gun was sent off for a Teflon coating. The idea was to remove the surface Teflon and leave the coating that filled the pores. The effect was a gun resembling a stainless gun that has been media blasted. The experiment worked somewhat, but was not nearly as effective as the idea. The finished product was the first "Mountain Gun" that I know of. Mind you I had been turned down by several gunsmiths that I approached with this idea before I found Spokanguns, so I was happy to get the gun built. It didn't turn out as I had expected. The first time I shot it a piece of jacket material hit me in the face just below my right eye and had to be removed with a set of tweezers. I was crushed. It never dawned on me in my childlike faith in gunsmiths that a custom gun maker could ream a factory cylinder off center. A few months later I was at a gunshow and Spokanguns had a table. They were drumming up business for custom guns. I didn't recognize the guy behind the table, but I told him about the gun I had built by Spokanguns and how it shot. He was very defensive and said they had never built such a gun. I said he was not around when it was built so he would not know. He softened his position and told me the next time I came to Spokane to bring the gun by the shop and he would look it over. I did that and he took the gun in back, after about ten minutes he came back and informed me the cylinder had been reamed off center. He said he would replace it with a factory 44 magnum cylinder and use the one from my gun for a custom 45 caliber build at some future date. I agreed to the solution and picked up the gun in about six weeks. It was a good shooter for the rest of the time I owned it. That gunsmith was Vern Ewer. We became good friends and I had him build many guns for me in the following years. He eventually moved to Benton City and having him so close to me was like winning the lotto. He went to work for Rockwell on the Hanford Nuclear Reservation as their Armorer, if I recall correctly. The last I heard of him was while reading a Glen Fryxell article he mentioned his good friend Vern Ewer. Vern always had integrity and in my book he is a respected gunsmith and friend.
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Post by ezekiel38 on Sept 17, 2016 13:31:06 GMT -5
Mr. Ewer and I attended a "combat handgun course" near Coeur'd Alene Idaho back in 1980. He had several custom pieces at the 3 day event hosted by Major Dick Culver. The one that stands out in my mind to this day was an N frame 58 frame, 45ACP cylinder with a 3.3 inch 1955 45 barrel cut to 3.3" and a gold bead front sight that looked a lot like a Novak, round butted and was a terrific shooter.
Vern was wanting $700.00 for the gun but I was having trouble purchasing off the shelf Smiths for 225.
Vern did several small jobs for me on Model 24 Smiths and his work was always top notch and he was always good to his word, work and price!
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Post by CraigC on Sept 17, 2016 14:56:57 GMT -5
Yep, those .44Spl model 19's had terribly thin forcing cones and chamber walls. The .41Spl would be interesting though.
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Post by jayhawker on Sept 17, 2016 21:09:51 GMT -5
Major Dick Culver is a name from the past. If I remember correctly he was an IPSC founder.
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aciera
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Post by aciera on Sept 18, 2016 2:38:49 GMT -5
If a new cylinder was made can the barrel threads be opened up?
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Post by smirker on Sept 19, 2016 19:46:41 GMT -5
I have acually handeled a 5 shot .44 special that was built on a 3in. model 66. It was for sale, but was way out of my reach. Way out....
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aciera
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Post by aciera on Jun 2, 2023 23:23:07 GMT -5
If a new cylinder was made can the barrel threads be opened up? Yeah they can…….work. But they can. |
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Post by bradshaw on Jun 3, 2023 7:09:56 GMT -5
Numerous Model 19’s went to the hospital after dining on Lee Jurras’s Super Vel ammo. Sprung chambers, pushed-out gas rings, etc. S&W never recommended the M-19 eat every meal a magnum. The revolver was meant to be shot normally with .38 Special, loaded once in a while with magnums. Even then, hotter mags pushed the stress allowance. Around the same time, some gun writers and firearms instructors----high on their own bullroar----poisoned students to train and qualify with the ammo they carry. Otherwise, they set themselves up to be killed. Severe threat provokes Tunnel Vision and Auditory Exclusion in the potential victim which block peripheral sights & sounds. The more damaging aspect of macho misinformation: to beat yourself up in practice invites a flinch, a form of panic.
The K-frame is designed around the 1899 .38 Special, a beautifully compact, rapid fire sixgun. It is not a .40, never was, never will be. S&W cylinder metallurgy is great stuff. To increase tenon wall thickness, you have to drill a bigger hole in the frame. Already thin, the web between barrel socket and yoke cut would have to be shaved thin as bible paper. S&W barrels use a fine thread, which allows minimum root diameter, or more metal around the threaded hole. The shallow root diameter of threads on the barrel tenon maximize thickness of the tenon wall, also.
To put it Country Simple, there ain’t a whole lot of meat to shave off a Model 19.
Far as this shooter is concerned, the K-frame in .357 Mag is at its Pro Stock potential. Do you want to get to the end of the strip, or blow up on the line?
David Bradshaw
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Post by bigbore5 on Jun 11, 2023 15:45:52 GMT -5
My k frame may be labeled 357, but it's a 38+p when I load it! Full magnum loads belong in a Blackhawk or a 66.
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Post by rjm52 on Jun 13, 2023 8:18:36 GMT -5
"Around the same time, some gun writers and firearms instructors----high on their own bullroar----poisoned students to train and qualify with the ammo they carry."
The #1 reason that LE had to go to qualifying with what they carried was a wrongful death lawsuit filed by the family of an innocent party who was hit/killed by a miss from a LEO. It was found that the officer (and all officers on the department) had only qualified with .38s but were carrying .357s.
This lawsuit, and subsequent payout, caused the entity that insures cities (can't remember the name) to insist that LEOs qualify with what they carry. In NH we had to do back to back quals, one with "practice" ammo and one with duty ammo and had to pass both times. Have got the name of the case somewhere in my training stuff but haven't looked at in in 25 years...
Bob
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Post by x101airborne on Jun 15, 2023 7:11:17 GMT -5
T.C.L.E.O.S.E.
Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officers Standards and Ethics. "If" my memory has that right. I do remember reading about that suit in the Academy.
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