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Post by 2 Dogs on Jul 25, 2016 12:06:21 GMT -5
The War on the Police
Avoiding the Mexican Paradigm
As I write this, I find myself still stuck in the anger phase of the grief process for those Officers killed by these armed madmen who seem to be everywhere these days. It is not just the Radical Islamists who are killing people. Yes, we see in the news every day where the Radical Islamists have killed someone in some horrible way. I would remind those in Uniform that this sort of thing has been going on for a long time now in Mexico. Those who are slaughtering, torturing and burning Christian people in Mexico are NOT Islamic terrorists. I remember pointing out that this was a reflection of the attitude of these gangs against the Police. I also predicted that there was no way that ideal, that attitude would not cross over to our side of the border. The Mexican officials first response to the murder of their officers was to pair up their Police Officers. The Cartels responded by killing the Mexican officers in pairs. Then Mexican officials then went to small squad strength where they had their Police cars filled with officers. The Cartels then began to kill them by the carload. The Mexican officers by now were being backed up by the Federales and began to move about in convoys of vehicles. I have seen the photographs of whole convoys of Mexican Police killed and strewn about the street by perfect L shaped ambushes carried out by the Cartels.
We must avoid that model. One man cars will offer more vigilance from more angles. Instead we should think about toning down all of our things that scream POLICE. Toned down uniforms and unmarked cars that make our officers a less obvious targets. It is extremely difficult to kill an "attitude or ideal". We must start by trying to win this war by defeating the mindset of these mass murderers. They can't kill what they can't find. The sound of sirens coming from every direction is what they need to hear. The threat of a aggressive properly trained and armed Officer is what they need to face. I spent a great deal of time behind a rifle during my career. What I would say is that he who stands in a fixed position becomes the easiest target thus the FIRST to be shot. Mobility rather than trying to secure a given location must be employed during these mass shootings. Further, no matter what tactic we employ, we must be prepared for it to not work and be ready to evolve to another strategy.
This next is rather harsh. I think we have now passed the point in some of these extreme situations where "shoot to stop" is a mistake. Instead we need to be sure that the extreme offender cannot detonate any remote device. Everyone out there needs a rifle and armor that will defeat the rifle. A pistol is a pitiful tool to take to a mass shooting. The expense here needs to be weighed against that cost of loss of life. In closing, we have already seen what doesn't work. We better try something different.
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callshot
.327 Meteor
Living another day in the worlds largest playground
Posts: 780
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Post by callshot on Jul 25, 2016 12:49:22 GMT -5
Right on!
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Post by magnumwheelman on Jul 25, 2016 13:21:41 GMT -5
unfortunately... IMO... we've gone far enough down that road, that there is little respect for anything anymore... not for human life, not for authority, not for god... we are a hopeless society right now... MAG leaves the realm of reality right now... we actually need something like a global "alien attack" devastating enough to put the fear of life as we know it going away, to get everyone to band together for a common cause... short of that "alien attack" I don't know how to get the middle age & younger society ( short of world war 3 ) to respect human life, themselves & others... I've been thinking of a way to honor my local city & county guys ( several I know well ) but others I don't know well enough... cater in pizza & salad at shift change or ...anyway our guys need to know that the general population respects & appreciates what they are doing... we need to find ways to show our appreciation
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cmh
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,745
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Post by cmh on Jul 25, 2016 13:29:56 GMT -5
Mr Fermin..... Ill say an amen to that Sir. My best friend is a Deputy Sheriff.... worry about him and the state of our country everyday....
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Post by blacktailslayer on Jul 25, 2016 14:03:18 GMT -5
I believe that you are correct sir. Need to stop the spread of this madness, secure our borders and bring things back to a civil tone.
Don D.
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Post by sheriff on Jul 25, 2016 14:26:12 GMT -5
Your comments remind me of one of the things that I really tried to avoid, militarizing my deputies. During the majority of my 31yr career my compadres and I wore street clothes and drove unmarked cars, only wearing a uniform during 'special events'. But, times have changed, people have changed, and demographics have changed; some for better, most not......
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Post by cherokeetracker on Jul 25, 2016 18:13:24 GMT -5
I would like to see more training in Police and Sheriffs both. I have thought for a long time that many situations call for rifles or shotguns. I would like to see training for how to converse with public, and better screening of officers. I agree that many things have changed in the last 5 years, on both sides. LEO have a thankless job most of the time. There has been way too much disrespect shown to them. They need to be honored along with our Military.
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Post by sixshot on Jul 25, 2016 19:37:46 GMT -5
It starts in the home & it really started when Obama threw the police under the bus, him & Eric Holder. They pretty much made it open season & our country has never been so divided since the civil war because of him. He has never waited to let the law run its course, ever. There is a total lack of respect for our men & women in blue & like it or not I can see where open carry "might" come back to haunt us with all that's going on, I hope not. I watched the marchers in Dallas last week & lots of people were carrying, how is a cop suppose to sort out the good from the bad when things get crazy? I know its our right but I will never do it, never. I can get my gun out very, very fast but it will always be concealed (my opinion) At least once a month I bake cinnamon rolls & take them to the police department & also to the sheriff's office, they usually meet me at the door & say thanks & I say the same thing. I wish they didn't even know my name but its a small town. Its my way of saying thanks & I'll always do it. Many times if I see a couple of cops having lunch I'll pay for it & tell the waitress to tell them thanks, I tell her not to give them my name, no strings atttached. We have to let them know we care, its a really bad time right now & there's a lot of very sad families out there without a father or sometimes a mother. Same with our military, my oldest grandson just made Gunnery Sargent in the Marines, we don't know where he is right now but I'm extremely proud of him.
Dick
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robrcg
.30 Stingray
Posts: 301
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Post by robrcg on Jul 25, 2016 20:27:42 GMT -5
Good thoughts. I would like to see our police respected by all segments of our society, including the news media. There have been times when police get it wrong and should be held accountable , but often I think the news media does not want to report what a given "suspect" did, or how they did not comply with the police's instructions. They often want to "make" news and not report it. I would also like to hear black leaders call on (all) people to obey the police and laws. Don't recall hearing much there. That right there I think could really help. It seems like we haved moved to a point where the police are "wrong" and need training to get things right on their end. Very unfair and won't solve all these problems. That said after 30 + years in sales calling on a very diverse group of people it is shocking how often I have heard of unfair treatment of blacks by whites. NOT AT ALL saying it justifies the murder of police - it doesn't justify the harming of anyone, but have to believe it would create a feeling that would be very hard for a white person like me to really comprehend - just an observation, not justification. Won't even touch on the Muslim extremists right now...
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cmh
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 3,745
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Post by cmh on Jul 25, 2016 20:41:12 GMT -5
If folks would only think what our country would be like for even one day without lawmen/women.....
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Post by bulasteve on Jul 26, 2016 8:10:53 GMT -5
Amen to the above posts. I've friends and aquaintences amongst LE and MIL.. I remember being in Tijiauna years ago and seeing police in pairs with subguns. Remember thinking..your not in Kansas anymore.. A tough job to do well.
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nicholst55
.375 Atomic
Retired, twice.
Posts: 1,047
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Post by nicholst55 on Jul 26, 2016 8:59:05 GMT -5
I totally agree with you, Fermin. I have felt for some time that police officers need to be better trained, equipped, and armed. In response to the current trend of murdering police officers, the Chicago PD has removed shotguns from patrol cars - without replacing them with a rifle (or another shotgun)! Talk about a huge step backwards!
As the U.S. Army and Marine Corps (re)discovered 13 years ago, sending groups of people into urban combat in thin-skinned, unarmored vehicles is tantamount to murder. I can only hope that our nations law enforcement agencies will not make the same mistakes. We had also better hope that the bad guys don't start using IEDs on a routine basis!
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Post by contender on Jul 26, 2016 11:11:54 GMT -5
Well said Fermin. Just about 15 minutes ago, I got off the phone with my son. He's LEO. He called to wish me a happy b-day. His is next week. We usually try & get together & enjoy a lunch or something,,, just the two of us, as our way of celebrating together. But today,,, part of our discussion was on how bad things are right now, and how I want him to be more vigilant on the street. He's a detective & already in plain clothes, and in an unmarked car. But,,, he still responds to calls when necessary, and he wears a vest & jacket with "police" on it. I call it his personal target.
But many others above have pointed out the real problem. The lack of respect for the police by the public. And of course, when it starts in the White House, many others see that as an approval for their actions. As I watched Bernie at the DNC give part of his speech last night,,, all I could see was pure socialism. Our LEO's will also suffer a lot under that attitude. So I pray daily for a better attitude towards our police & the country in general!
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Post by bulasteve on Jul 26, 2016 11:18:12 GMT -5
We REALLY do not want a us vs them mentally to keep building. Anarchy to follow. Police state to follow. Both BAD.
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cmillard
.375 Atomic
MOLON LABE
Posts: 1,943
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Post by cmillard on Jul 26, 2016 11:45:27 GMT -5
well, just saw my Sherriff on Foxnews today. Sherriff Greg Graver--great American like Clark and Arpiao. After being denied back stage access at the Jones county fair by FLordia Georgia line (apparently this group has issues with police), when FGL asked for a police escort afterwards, Sherriff Graver denied them!!! Way to go Greg!!
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