Consensus on primer uses (std or mag) with Hodgdon powders?

[toroflow]

I've been reloading since 1974 and have been of the impression that using heavier loads of ball powders requires use of a mag primer. For example, when loading .300 mag with a full load of slow ball powder, of course I use a mag primer. But what about the lighter loads, like using HS-6 in handgun (say 10mm) in medium doses, or Titegroup with light charges in .38. It seems there is a point in the particular powder's burn rate (e.g. Titegroup vs. H4831), and how light or heavy the powder load is that determines, at that point, you should use a mag primer. Sometimes I find the loading manuals and online manuals are not that clear. I am seeking opinions of folks that burn a lot of Hodgdon, as I just ordered 48 pound of it in various flavors! Thank you.

[dougader]

I've always used mag primers with H110, H450, and even HS6. But not with Tightgroup or Universal, or H335 in 5.56

IMO, it's not just that it's a ball powder. It's also the amount and the job the powder is meant to do.

HS6 has been an odd one for me. I never got a clean burn with it unless I used mag primers or small rifle primers...in 38/357, 9mm/9mm major. I only ever bought 1 pound of the stuff. Others here really like it, but it just didn't work well for me.

[bradshaw]

May 13, 2016 13:25:07 GMT -5 toroflow said:

I've been reloading since 1974 and have been of the impression that using heavier loads of ball powders requires use of a mag primer. For example, when loading .300 mag with a full load of slow ball powder, of course I use a mag primer. But what about the lighter loads, like using HS-6 in handgun (say 10mm) in medium doses, or Titegroup with light charges in .38. It seems there is a point in the particular powder's burn rate (e.g. Titegroup vs. H4831), and how light or heavy the powder load is that determines, at that point, you should use a mag primer. Sometimes I find the loading manuals and online manuals are not that clear. I am seeking opinions of folks that burn a lot of Hodgdon, as I just ordered 48 pound of it in various flavors! Thank you.

toroflow.... mag rifles loaded with slow propellants----stick or ball----perform properly with mag primers.

There is no need for a mag primer to ignite fast or medium handgun propellants (HS-6 is a medium burn ball pistol powder). I have never loaded the 10mm auto with a mag primer; the 10mm Auto is a true medium burn rate pistol cartridge. Perhaps, if you want to rocket it up with slow magnum revolver powder, a mag primer might serve the purpose. First recognize that a Rocks & Dynamite charge of slow powder violently accelerates the slide, battering frame and slide. Thus, a proper medium powder imparts velocity to the 10 Auto without stratospheric consequences. Note also, the 10mm Auto takes a Large Pistol primer, which delivers more flame than a Small Pistol Magnum primer.

Winchester 296/Hodgdon 110 is a slow ball powder which hurls magnum revolvers to top velocity & accuracy. However, bullet weight (think inertia, or holdback) factors in primer selection for big bore handguns. During a brief experiment in DEEP SEATING a cast 335 grain LFN .452" over 20/H110 in .45 Colt brass, there was virtually no difference between Large Pistol and Large Pistol Magnum primers in 5-shot groups @ 100 yards. Velocity of the mag primed load was slightly more, with the standard primer producing a smaller Extreme Spread (ES). The bullet base barely kisses the ball powder. Holdback of the 335 LFN affords the standard Large Pistol Primer time kindle the slow powder.

Winchester 231/Hodgdon HP-38 is a top fast pistol powder, producing accuracy & efficiency from numerous low pressure cartridges, such as .38 Special and .45 ACP. Despite voluminous airspace between powder and base of bullet, 231/HP-38 ignites uniformly. Standard primer is perfect. If the Standard LP primer is unavailable, the Magnum LP primer will do; I generally back off two-tenths grain powder.
David Bradshaw

[nolongcolt]

As above, and also the specific brand of powder has no bearing, its all about burn rate and application. For me its odd in that Win 748 will give hangfires for me unless I use mag primers, but the slower Win 760 will not. Some powders are just too hard to light. I gave up on 748 for this reason as there are just too many other powders in that range that light easier.

[sixshot]

Back in the 70's when chronographs starting becoming available to everyone a lot of people got their eyes opened real wide for the first time because many times what we thought we were getting was way different from what we were really getting. We found that something as simple as a primer switch could sometimes make a huge difference, other times, not so much. Some times seating depth made a huge difference & again at times it didn't mean a whole lot as David as mentioned before.
What I've always tried to do is establish a "base' load & then experiment from there with different primers, powders, sometimes seating depth if it was a rifle I was testing. Changing brands of brass can make a change. Some of the things we were told that were gospel we found out weren't gospel at all & needing a magnum primer for everything was one of them. A magnum primer with a fast or medium powder just gives you a pressure spike that you don't need. Hodgdon makes many great powders but a lot of them do not want or need a magnum primer.

Dick

[cherokeetracker]

Toroflow ,
Read this for a little more information www.shootingtimes.com/ammo/ammunition_st_mamotaip_200909/ Written by Allan Jones, who wrote the Load Manuals for Speer for several years.

Without going in to every detail,, there has been several individual "tests" or "trials" to see just what works best. You can also call each one of the powder companies to ask questions, and it may surprise you to find the answers. The powders, and along with primers, have different "Burn Rates" and different "Burn characteristics" along with, different "Burn Temperatures".

[AxeHandle]

Pull out the loading manual and use the primer specified... If you want to play with stuff outside the box be careful. Things won't consistently change in a linear manner.

[bagdadjoe]

This thread is one prime example of why I love this site.
Thanks.

[magnumwheelman]

My reloading mentor also ( when we are outside the box ) will often run a hotter or magnum primer if the cartridge is to be used hunting in below freezing temps... as there often seems to be issues getting full burn velocities at colder temps... a cartridge may be just fine in July, but may have reduced velocity in January...