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Post by contender on May 10, 2016 22:11:25 GMT -5
Ok, I'm stumped. I'm pretty good with Rugers,,, and while I'm not a newbie with S&W revolvers,,, I'll freely admit I'm less than knowledgeable in curing their ills. Here is my issue.
I have a 646 S&W DA revolver, in 40 S&W. It uses moon clips. I am getting intermittent light strikes on the primer. I have tried factory ammo,,, same results. I have the main spring tension screw down pretty tight. I have replaced the firing pin with a longer one. My primers are Winchester WSP's. When rotated around,, most often, they fire on the second or third try. Occasionally,, it takes the SA firing to get them to ignite, after they have been struck once or twice. In my reloading, I place the loaded ammo on a marble slab to look for high primers, so all are flush or slightly below flush. My gunsmith has looked at the internals, and didn't find anything wrong. Also, this gun was bought new, and I'm the only one who has fired it. I did have an initial issue with the mainspring tension screw backing out, so I used a piece of nylon fishing line in the hole to "nylock" the screw from moving. It no longer moves outward.
I've spoken with Julie Golieb & she suggested Apex Tactical, which I did an internet search. They are not taking in any new jobs at this time. Plus, they offer an extended firing pin, as well as a reduced firing pin spring,,, BUT IT MUST BE USED WITH FEDERAL PRIMERS ONLY for reliability. I do not have any Federal primers to test it with, but I'd really like to diagnose the issue as it should fire the Winchester primers.
I may consider contacting S&W but they may want the gun back & since it's kinda rare, I'd be a bit afraid they'd keep it, if they determined it wasn't servicable.
So,,, I'm asking for advice here,,, hopefully,,, maybe someone has a bit of untried advice for me.
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Post by shortbarrel on May 10, 2016 23:32:48 GMT -5
Contender,I'm wondering if the moon clips aren't a hair thin.It looks like Brownells sells two different thickness moon clips for difference in rim thickness.I'd give the thicker version a try.
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Post by shortbarrel on May 10, 2016 23:47:52 GMT -5
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Post by 2 Dogs on May 11, 2016 0:06:39 GMT -5
Federal primers are your solution.
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Post by magnumwheelman on May 11, 2016 5:38:45 GMT -5
Actual head space could be an issue... my 5-7 year old S&W 610 was purchased new, & had excessive headspace, from the factory... my machining buddy was going to ream the cylinders to 10mm Magnum, & noticed it had out of spec headspace... the gun had to go back to S&W 4 times ( 4th with a note from the area sales rep ) before it was corrected... of course I was never told what the problem was, but I suspect the cylinder was toon short???
I also have some of the RIMZ brand plastic moon clips, I think those are also thicker...
anyway, after 4 trips back to S&W ( I think they tweaked the trigger each time ) as it now has the 2nd best trigger of any double action I own, & has never failed to light off a primer, & I use almost exclusively the harder CCI primers
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Post by seancass on May 11, 2016 6:57:03 GMT -5
After some similar issues with a 929, i attributed it to bent moon clips. A new batch seemed to solve the issue, but it'll be a few weeks before I'll call it solved.
I also bought thicker moon clips, but these require i sort and test my brass so i haven't fully worked those out yet.
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Post by magnumwheelman on May 11, 2016 7:10:30 GMT -5
now that SEAN mentions it... I seem to remember a couple occasions for other shooters, where the moon clip was slightly bent, & it caused a "cusioning" effect when the hammer struck, causing itermitent light strikes
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Post by contender on May 11, 2016 8:14:50 GMT -5
Ok, thanks all for the info so far. Moon clips,,, well the ones shipped with it don't get used. They are flimsey, & I'm TRYING to use this gun for USPSA competition. I did buy some metal ones that have held up quite well, and they are all flat. I checked them on my marble slab as well. I have 2 of them that did get a little bent during the Area 6 match, that have been sent to the "practice" bag only after flattening them out. And,,, I can load the very same clip, after having misfires, and all rounds go off. Bent moons do not seem to be the issue. Due to this being a 6 shot, 40 S&W, my moon clip options are limited. I may see if a different brand will work to address the thickness issue. However, when the gun is loaded, if I have a primer that is the least bit high,,, it binds up, or drags. (That led to me using the marble slab in the first place.)
I also forgot to mention,,, I've had the same issues with various brass,,, so I don't think it's a brass rim thickness issue.
shortbarrel,,, I'll go to the link in a few minutes to see what it has to offer,,,, thanks!
2Dogs,,, I fully plan on trying Federal primers the first opportunity I can. Just none available locally,,, yet,,,,! If that solves it,,, well, my match ammo will be using them.
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Post by contender on May 11, 2016 8:23:44 GMT -5
Ok, I just read the linked thread and I may study my crimp a bit. Some guys there experienced binding, with different moons, and some had cases sticking in the cylinder. My problem isn't binding, (unless a slightly high primer,) and when fired,,, my moons will eject just fine. But,,, if the cases need a bit more crimp, to allow them to seat differently, it may solve the problem. But in reading the posts there,,, some are using the gun w/o the moons, and of course, the 40 headspaces off the mouth,,, so the crimp is critical.
I'm going to see if I can post a picture of a clip showing the different strikes on the primer. I kept one out yesterday for just that purpose.
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Post by cherokeetracker on May 11, 2016 8:59:03 GMT -5
Contender, I did read all the posts, so I am aware of your efforts. The Federal Primers is the best solution, since that is a proven deal. My second offering would be the Remington primers. I understand about finding components, and I have had this trouble before, and not with just a single S&W. I have seen more than one, do this, and my next solution is to shave .002-.003 of the shoulder on the mainpsring screw. this causes a little more pressure or bend in the spring. I also use a little finger nail polish to then make an effort to keep the screw from backing off. I stay away from Loctite for this.
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Post by 2 Dogs on May 11, 2016 9:03:38 GMT -5
Ok, I just read the linked thread and I may study my crimp a bit. Some guys there experienced binding, with different moons, and some had cases sticking in the cylinder. My problem isn't binding, (unless a slightly high primer,) and when fired,,, my moons will eject just fine. But,,, if the cases need a bit more crimp, to allow them to seat differently, it may solve the problem. But in reading the posts there,,, some are using the gun w/o the moons, and of course, the 40 headspaces off the mouth,,, so the crimp is critical. I'm going to see if I can post a picture of a clip showing the different strikes on the primer. I kept one out yesterday for just that purpose. I would suggest that you uniform the primer pockets on your match or competition brass. Sounds like you need to case gauge your loaded ammo as well.
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Post by contender on May 11, 2016 11:01:19 GMT -5
Ok, I can uniform the primer pockets,,, no problem. I already case gauge the ammo as well. I may shave a few thousands off the mainspring screw as well,,, if other solutions don't work. Here is a picture of a moonclip I fired yesterday. It's an example of what I see upon having a problem. How many fired & how many didn't? Which one(s) are the misfires, using the clock method of naming them?
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Post by shortbarrel on May 11, 2016 23:24:02 GMT -5
Probably a dumb question but do you feel that the moon clips are not bent?I see a variety of brass.Is there much difference in the rim thicknesses?Does it happen more often to a certain brand of brass?
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Post by magnumwheelman on May 12, 2016 5:43:22 GMT -5
I'm a little OCD... I'd probably start by sorting my brass by headstamp...
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Post by contender on May 12, 2016 8:51:07 GMT -5
Read above; I have the same problem with all brands of brass. Also, I check the moons on my marble, all flat.
I called S&W yesterday. They have sent me a FedEx return shipping label. It'll likely go back to them,,, after I try a few things.
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