#5 versus Ruger Bisley

[Mark Terry]

I've been studying pictures and I can't determine the differences or similarities between the Ruger Bisley, #5, and Colt Bisley grip frames. I have Rugers but no variation of the #5 and no Colt Bisley to compare. The Colt Bisley looks quite different than either of the other two (even if the original #5 reportedly is made from a Colt Bisley backstrap) and several of the reproduction #5's look slightly different from the original #5. Again, I'm working from photographs and each seems to have yet more differences in grip panels (or stocks).


Overall, the TLAs look very similar to the original #5 but that may or may not be true. The Ruger may be more similar to the original than I'd first thought.


Several of you guys have "hands on" experience with these. What's your opinion / analysis?

[taffin]

TLA IS A VIRTUAL COPY OF THE #5; THE COLT BISLEY IS LONGER AND RISES HIGHER BEHIND THE TRIGGER GUARD. THE RUGER BISLEY IS LONGER THAN THE ORIGINAL #5 WHICH WAS MADE FOR KEITH'S RATHER SMALL HANDS AND FILLS IN MORE BEHIND THE TRIGGER GUARD THAN THE COLT. FOR ME: THE #5 IS VERY UNFORGIVING FROM SHOT TO SHOT AND THE EXACT GRIP MUST BE MAINTAINED EACH SHOT. THE RUGER IS THE MOST COMFORTABLE FOR HEAVY LOADS; THE COLT BISLEY DOES NOT WORK WELL FOR HEAVY LOADS.

[taffin]

PS SEE CHAPTER 31 OF "SINGLE ACTION SIXGUNS" ESPECIALLY PAGE 239

[cubrock]

I agree with taffin re: the TLA #5 being unforgiving. When I got my first one, I couldn't hold 5" groups with it at 25 yards. At first, I thought it was the gun (that first gun had problems and I thought accuracy was one of them). Only over time did I discover that grip consistency was critical in getting any kind of accuracy out of that gun. My pet hunting load for it consistently groups 2" at 25 yards from a field position now that I know how to shoot it.

[majorKAP]

Yeah....what they said. Moderate 44mag loads or they're equivalent are about all I want in my TLA #5s.

But boy, they sure is pretty, isn't they.



Oh, cubrock, I'll be passing through sometime tomorrow. I'll give you a few hours heads up so maybe we could grab a bite at your favorite greasy spoon. I'll treat.

[cubrock]

KAP,

Great! Looking forward to it!

[jimmarch]

I've been wondering if it isn't possible to custom-shorten the Ruger Bisley grip frame and produce something with good recoil control yet more compact and compatible with a pinkie-under hold.

The result wouldn't be any sort of exact copy of the #5, but it might be a decent "functional" copy, esp. if it's custom-chopped to my hand size and grip style?

[Boge Quinn]

There's plenty of room to shorten the Bisley grip frame, although some fill-in welding would be indicated:



Sounds like a neat project!

[AxeHandle]

I believe that David Clements' No 5 grip frame starts life as a Ruger Bisley GF...

[bigmuddy]

I don't have any final pics yet of my "#5 FT" that I am having done on a Lipsey's 44 special. It is at Ron Power's now waiting to be completed. I got it back recently from Ted Adamovich with a beautiful set of walnut grips, and it being the first #5 grip frame I ever handled, I was amazed at how good if fit my hand. The gun was not finished, but I had to take it out and shoot it before I took it back to Ron. I can't comment on how un-forgiving it is but I was hitting everything I pointed at it seemed. I am sure the fit of those grips to my hand had something to do with it, but that gun is a real shooter. I can't wait to get it completed. BTW it was shaped from a tracing of Elmer's actual gun.

I always did and still do like Ruger Bisley grip frames, but that #5 just feels right to me. I have one Colt Bisley that feels ok to shoot one handed, which is what it was designed for. I have never tried any heavy loads in it.

All 3 are unique to themselves.

[CraigC]

Sept 9, 2009 13:39:53 GMT -5 AxeHandle said:

I believe that David Clements' No 5 grip frame starts life as a Ruger Bisley GF...

THAT is a gorgeous sixgun! Love the old Westinghouse micarta with the hard chrome. What I like about Clements' #5 is that he uses the Bisley triggerguard. It has a pleasing, rounded shape like 1st generation Colt SAA's. What I've noticed on a lot of them is that they use the Blackhawk triggerguard which is a little flat on the bottom. Completely unlike the original. Something I love about USFA's and 1st generation Colt's but despise on 3rd generation Colt's. It's readily apparent especially on the Power Custom #5 and is the reason why I haven't bought one yet. It would look a lot better if it was at least beveled, rather than left flat on the sides. Perfection in a Ruger #5, to me, would be Clements' grip frame with Stroh's half cock conversion with the Bisley trigger set back into the triggerguard and reshaped to closely fit the triggerguard's shape.

Tiny details but in a custom gun, that's what we live for....right?

I find the Colt Bisley pattern to be very comfortable with heavy loads.

[jimmarch]

Absolutely there's welding involved but, overall, costs might still be less than #5 parts from Ron Powers.

First, the only welding is a single strip on the bottom, nothing very complex. Second, look at grip panel availability - you can use any standard Ruger Bisley grip set (including whatever came with a used grip frame?) and just cut it shorter - much easier fitting job for sure.

Even starting with brand new Bisley parts, costs should be in the same ballpark as the Powers parts, esp. factoring in no need for fully custom grip panels.

As a bonus, you can if you want toss out the whole idea of making the bottom of the grip panels parallel to the barrel. That's a tradition we borrowed from the Colt SAA. The Colt Bisley didn't do that, any number of other SAs also didn't. I can see advantages for pinkie-under holds based on a different angle or even a concave curve underneath.

What you're still keeping is a higher hold for less muzzle flip, also found in the #5.

[Mark Terry]

Sept 9, 2009 7:18:15 GMT -5 taffin said:

PS SEE CHAPTER 31 OF "SINGLE ACTION SIXGUNS" ESPECIALLY PAGE 239

Thanks for the assignment, Mr. Taffin. That's exactly what I was looking for.

I like the Ruger Bisley but can't comment on the original #5. From the picture on 239 comparing the grips (from the grip frames), I see the point about Elmer's smaller hands. My guess is that I'd find a real #5 to feel short for my XL hands.

I'd read "Single Action Sixguns" from cover to cover before and still read it regularly but did not remember the chapter specifically discussing grip frames (actually chapter 34). I suppose the more I learn and focus on the specifics, the more important each facet becomes.

Yessir, I'm still working on the continuing education...

Thanks

[jimmarch]

I just had a sick thought. Really sick. And if you know me by now, that can be pretty damn sick.

OK, refer back to this pic:



(Great pic by the way, and fantastic article it goes with on Ruger SA grip frames - look in the Gunblast.com articles archive if you're new around here.)

OK. Let's say we moved that keeper up a bit, matching the shorter mainspring and strut from the New Vaquero or other "keylock model". But we don't use a keylock, we just move that keeper by...I think about 1/4 inch or so, off the top of my head. More accurate measurements can be taken off my NewVaq stock grip frame, but I do know those parts are shorter.

OK, so that leaves us a pretty big area down there within the contours of the original Bisley grip frame edge. Very big.

Big enough to punch a pinkie-hole in? And then drill a matching hole in the grip panels, rounded and smoothed of course?

Using putty epoxy, it should be easy to fill in the bottoms of the holes on each panel so that the mainspring area remains as environmentally protected as normal. Won't be visible much when assembled, esp. if the epoxy is brown to match wood grips.

With the pinkie through this hole, you now have a "pinkie under" hold with unmatched security. And in a close-range fight, you have a brutal knuckle-duster...picture a basic right cross with that monster, or a backhand. Basically a 2lb brass knuckle. And re-indexing for each shot would be...Gawd, off-scale accurate.

Best of all, the cost and labor would be damned reasonable. It could be home-brewed very easily.

Now for a name for such a monster...how about..."Holey CRAP!"



(I'm quite serious about everything but maybe the name.)

Oh yeah. Oh HELL yeah.

[c.r.]

Sept 9, 2009 22:54:46 GMT -5 jimmarch said:

With the pinkie through this hole, you now have a pinkie under hold with unmatched security. .

I think you'd be asking for a broken pinky