Bullet casting

[jsh]

Just saw a thread last night on push through sizers that NOE makes. I have not went over there and looked. I would like to see one made that used regular sizing dies, or maybe even the redding carbide buttons.
I did just as described above with the push through lee and then to the Lyman luber. Why? Because the mold drops at .413 and when I check and lube it goes off center and wipes out some of the lube groove and crimp groove.
I believe PCing has a place, but it will never totally replace lubing. Just another tool to use is the way I look at it.
I think as the PCing moves along we will see changes in bullet design.
Jeff

[tek4260]

I'll also have to check out the new Lee 4-20. I see that they have changed the design. Mine has the ringed rod with the screw to adjust flow. I ended up clamping a pair of Vise Grips to the tip of the rod. That way the rod has more weight and doesn't "float" in the melt, so I don't end up adjusting the screw down to keep the pot from leaking. When you do that, you limit the flow severely and it's hard to get good bullets.

Joe, next time you fire it up, put a pan under it and adjust the rod to where you get maximum flow. It may drip some, but you should be casting fast enough that it doesn't really cause an issue. When the bullets start getting frosty, cut the temp down rather than slowing your rate.

Also, preheat your mold on one of those cheap little stove eyes that you can get at the dollar store. Those steel molds take a long time to heat up.

[Joe S.]

I used a propane torch to "preheat" and clean the mold before using. Sprayed it down with acetone and blew it dry with the torch.

[Cholla]

Dec 31, 2015 6:55:17 GMT -5 tek4260 said:

+1 on the Lee Push Thru sizers.

The Lyman/RCBS sizers have slop in the ram that's minute, but it's enough to "pull" the bullet to one side or the other and make the "nose" not concentric with the centerline of the bullet. I've found that if I roll the bullets on a case lube pad, then run them through the Lee sizer before actually using the lubrasizer, that this can be avoided. In essence I'm using it to lube only, and it doesn't yield bullets that have the nose pulled off center. The ram doesn't deflect since there is no pressure of sizing the bullet. It's only lubing.

Plus I'm also using a flat nose punch that someone on castboolits sells or used to sell.

I'm a firm believer in push through sizing as I believe it makes for more concentric bullets. A few years ago I was competing in our local High Power competitions shooting cast bullets out of a Schmidt-Rubin. As such I wanted the best possible bullets. My method of lubing and sizing my .30 caliber bullets was to lubricate them in a slightly oversize die in one of my lubrisizers then size them in a Lee die. Since then I've bought a Star lubrisizer which I have decided is the ultimate tool for lubing, sizing and creating perfectly round bullets, not to mention the fact it is insanely fast and one can lube/size 15-20 bullets per minute even if they're just loafing. I still use a standard lubrisizer for .38/.357 bullets as I don't shoot many of them. I made a flat nose punch that allows the bullets to align themselves with the sizing die. Many years ago I inherited from my father an RCBS lubrisizer that was horribly misaligned. I returned the decade old press and they replaced it free of charge. All the lubrisizers I've acquired since, even a really old Lyman is aligned perfectly.

CHT

[Cholla]

Dec 31, 2015 7:37:22 GMT -5 jsh said:

Just saw a thread last night on push through sizers that NOE makes. I have not went over there and looked. I would like to see one made that used regular sizing dies, or maybe even the redding carbide buttons.
I did just as described above with the push through lee and then to the Lyman luber. Why? Because the mold drops at .413 and when I check and lube it goes off center and wipes out some of the lube groove and crimp groove.
I believe PCing has a place, but it will never totally replace lubing. Just another tool to use is the way I look at it.
I think as the PCing moves along we will see changes in bullet design.
Jeff

The NOE push through sizers will be great for those that cast multiple calibers. They manufacture a sizer die body that sells for $39.95 then sizer bushings for $9.95 that are inserted in the body depending on the size one wishes to use. They offer infinitely more "in between" sizes than Lee. I'm sure I'll have one before long!

Again, TEK is right regarding preheating your mould. The iron moulds such as the RCBS are as tough as they get, but you need to be really careful when preheating it so as not to warp it. I submerse the bottom front corner of the (steel) mould in the lead pot for no more than about 1 minute to preheat it.

CHT

[tek4260]

That's why I use the little stove eye/hot plate. Set on about half power, there is no real chance of warping the mold. I've never really had any luck dipping the mold corner. I may not be doing it long enough or dipping deep enough though

[callshot]

I also use a hot plate with a short piece I'd steel channel beam set on it to warm the moulds.

[Joe S.]

Man this is a great thread. Thanks for all the advice!

[sixshot]

I use either a hot plate or dip the corner of the mould in the alloy to warm up the mould blocks. Heating with a torch kind of scares me, warping an expensive custom mould wouldn't be fun. Also, using a flat top punch works wonders for helping align the bullets as mentioned. A fitted top punch thats out of alignment with the sizing die is going to size the bullet off center & your perfectly cast bullet is now NOT perfect. I use 2 different flat top punches in my Star sizer & 2 different one's in my RCBS sizer for everything I size & they work great.
Verl Smith & Glen Frxyell are probably the 2 most experienced & knowledgeable people on the planet when it comes to bullet casting. Glen I believe has a degree in some type of metalurgury. Verl makes probably the best commercial bullet lube out there so he's not going to promote powder coating. I have no idea where Glen stands on powder coating, wish he would jump in & expect that some of them will at some time but you can't dispute the fact that powder coating is so much, cleaner, no smoke, almost never any leading even at higher speeds & I've always gotten accuracy thats as good or better with powder coating as with lubed bullets. Almost always its been better & I've been doing it for 2 years now. It just something everyone will have to decide for themselves but many haven't even tried it yet they have already formed an opinion, to me that seems odd.
Back to casting, be careful that you don't strike your mould blocks when knocking off the sprue, moulds are fragile & can be damaged easily. You only want to strike the spue plate straight away from you, not down or you will break off the screw once it gets hot! When the pot gets 2/3's down you can add the sprue's back into the pot along with more alloy, if you get too low you bullets will start getting rounded edges again because you pot in low on alloy. If you are casting big bullets its a good idea to cast with 2 or even 3 moulds so they don't over heat. Oh, & be careful picking them up, a hot one looks just like a cold one....just ask Callshot.

Dick

[tek4260]

Dec 31, 2015 14:51:18 GMT -5 sixshot said:

Oh, & be careful picking them up, a hot one looks just like a cold one....

[Joe S.]

Made a few more tonight. I think these look better.



I threw back 20-30 probably before saving the first one this time.

And i fluxed like 3 times. I need a better place to cast. Somewhere a little more open. I have strong fans but still not crazy about where i'm at.

However i reload inside. Lol

[Snyd]

Lots of good info and re-read what cholla posted. Good stuff there. I'll my.02. I too cast with a Lee 20lb pot. I see you have it up to about 8, and with the pot that low I bet your temp is 8-900! Wayyy too hot. You NEED a thermometer. It's the only way you can be sure your alloy temp stays consistent. Depending on your alloy and particular mold, outside temp, you should be around 650-750. You skimmed off a bunch of tin in your pile there. Add some of that back in with your next batch. Melt a whole pot, flux with wax or sawdust, etc. If you get it up to about 750ish and through in some parafin wax it should POOF into a flame then yo won't have as much smoke. I usually throw in the wax and have a match lit and light the smoke on fire. It's pretty cool! Here's a few pics of my setup. I have the pot on high until it get to temp then drop it back to about 7 then down to 6 or 5 as to maintain temp as I empty the pot. It depends on outside temp too. Things act different at 10 above then they do at 75! I have this old thermometer that I use.

Here's a thread I started a couple years ago that lots of guys have chimed in on....Your Smeltdown/casting process

Have fun!!

[Snyd]

Nice! Looks like you're making some headway. How are they coming out for size?

Dec 31, 2015 22:13:07 GMT -5 Joe S. said:

Loaded a few more tonight. I think these look better.



I threw back 20-30 probably before saving the first one this time.

And i fluxed like 3 times. I need a better place to cast. Somewhere a little more open. I have strong fans but still not crazy about where i'm at.

However i reload inside. Lol

[jsh]

I used a lee 20 lb pot for a long time before I got my rcbs pot. It dripped some even with the vise grip trick. It cast a lot of bullets none the less.
A PID is somthing I really need to invest in. The dials on both the lee and rcbs don't seem to be consistant through the full range of how much the pot has in it. On large heavy molds I usually run to a little under half or so. This seems to help keep fill out and weight more consistant, at least for me.
I have found "head pressure" to have a lot to do with weight and fill.

I cull pretty hard. A cull is a cull. Call it a second if you want. Use a second bullet in a match or for practice, expect second class results. They are just to easy to recycle. If one strives for the best, you can only get better.

I was told by several when I started casting that I would never be able to achieve any kind of accuracy on a regular basis with cast. Well long story short those boys have had to eat a lot of humble pie over the past years, on a regular basis.

Glad to see some one else shooting the K31 with cast. These are one fine rifle and wish I had bought and kept twice as many as I did when they were $69-89. They can be tough to work with as they are a whole different breed of critter. Buddy set one up with a big Leupold shooting K31 match ammo. At 1000k it shot better than several modern high end rifles that are bragged on.

[Joe S.]

They are dropping about .454/.455.

Havent weighed one.

The other night i had to run that hot or the nozzle stopped up after about every time i filled the mold.

Last night it settled in at about 6. I will get a thermometer eventually.