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Post by mbaneacp on Aug 23, 2009 18:31:02 GMT -5
Gentlemen; An Africa trip for September 2010 I thought was gone baby gone is back on the table. Basically, we'll be filming for a pretty unique special, going after buffalo in Mozambique with a Ruger #1 in 450/400 3-inch. As Mozambique allows handgun hunting, there's a sudden opportunity here. I've got a couple of .454s, but since this is a Ruger hunt I'd like to ride for the brand. Of course, Ruger would loan me a .454 Redhawk, but it would break my heart to do what may be my only African hunt and not shoot one of my beloved single actions. So, a golden excuse for a new gun! Let me tell you what I'm thinking first, and those of you more experienced than me please shoot holes in my idea. I'm thinking of a 5-shot .44 Magnum on a Super Blackhawk, either from Hamilton Bowen or Dave Clements. .44 because I shoot a lot of .44s and have more experience with the round than a .454. I'm thinking the heavy bullets in a .44 platform will come close to rivaling the .454. Obviously, the .475 is the trick pony, but I'm thinking the heavy .44 might prove more versatile for other projects in the long run. Am I way off base here? If so, why? Secondly, barrel length...my inclination would be a 6 1/2-inch. Thoughts? Thank you in advance! Best, Michael B  Oh yeah, one further question...is a Bisley gripframe a must? |
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groo
.327 Meteor
I yet live!!!!
Posts: 855
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Post by groo on Aug 23, 2009 18:54:05 GMT -5
Groo here
JD Jones[SSK] and Mr. Kelly[Magnaport] took many types of game with the 44mag.
Kelly used a 7 1/2 in with SSK hard-cast to take elephant.
JD thought the 454 was a better round but the 44 worked.
I would think that any of the bigger magnums would work
as long as the correct bullet was used.
Also as long as you get the speed up to 1200+ the bullets should
drive deeply.
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rigby
.327 Meteor
Posts: 769
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Post by rigby on Aug 23, 2009 20:09:47 GMT -5
Hey Mike, What bullet weight and velocity would you be looking at? I just keeping thinking about Seyfrieds 45 colt, took 5? rounds to bring him down.
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Post by CraigC on Aug 23, 2009 20:18:56 GMT -5
What ya plannin' on using the sixgun on? I have some thoughts. Firstly, I would take a look at Hodgdon's heavy bullet data before spending the extra coin for a five-shot cylinder in .44Mag. Don't know how their velocities translate to the real world but you'll see 325-355gr cast bullets driven to 1200-1360fps. These are run at standard pressures and lengths that will fit in a standard Ruger single action cylinder. I really don't see doing any better than that in real world performance without going up in caliber. Click the link below to look at a Bisley Hunter cut to 5½" or 6" (might have to wait until tomorrow due to bandwidth being exceeded on the photo host). Keeps the ability to mount a scope, will fit in standard holsters without, perfect packing length, long ejector, Bisley grip frame, there's a lot there to like and it's got me thinking......hard! So I'm thinking a Bisley Hunter .44Mag, cut to desired length, action job, tighten lockup, reduce endshake, maybe fit an oversized bolt, recut the forcing cone, perhaps Taylor throating and install a Weigand interchangeable front sight system with a Bowen target rear. Also fit it with a lanyard ring and custom grips.I'd go with ivory micarta, the old Westinghouse stuff if you can find it. It's just that if I was going with a five-shot, I'd have to go to a .475 or .500. Even moderately loaded it would be a serious thumper and do more than the .44 ever could. I actually find it hard to see needing any more than my ugly .480 SRH can deliver with 420's@1200fps but obviously, it ain't a single action.  www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=62445&sid=b289fd2756fa61b22cf67ddc78bc2d35I'd love to hear how it goes with the #1. I've lusted after one of those #1's in .450/.400 since they first announced them. What got me interested was finding out that I could duplicate its original ballistics in my late model Winchester 1895 .405WCF, that incidentally, I had bought for Africa. Never got to trying 400's in it, the trip didn't happen and I never got the #1 either. Maybe some day. |
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Post by whitworth on Aug 23, 2009 20:36:46 GMT -5
The various .45s are definite step up on the food chain in my experience. The .44 will take everything, but it's a bit of an over-achiever IMHO. I would go .454 if that is the option over a .44 mag -- but that's just me.
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Post by AxeHandle on Aug 23, 2009 21:10:09 GMT -5
My Mama has 44s and 454s.... This is your chance for a nice custom 475.... ;D
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Post by bloodhound on Aug 23, 2009 21:21:15 GMT -5
My Mama has 44s and 454s.... This is your chance for a nice custom 475.... ;D THAT'S TOO FUNNY AXE.....I'M STILL LAUGHING....... ;D |
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Post by AxeHandle on Aug 23, 2009 21:42:54 GMT -5
Since I see Michael every Wednesday night I feel like I can treat him like family! ;D
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Post by bloodhound on Aug 23, 2009 22:10:15 GMT -5
WELL THEN...SINCE HE IS FAMILY.....LOAN HIM ONE OF YOUR NEW GALLAGHER BIG BORES FOR THE TRIP..... ;D ;D
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Post by boxhead on Aug 23, 2009 22:14:54 GMT -5
Since it is a Ruger hunt and you want to shoot a SA, I'd build a 480 Ruger Bisley like Ruger should have anyway. Ya, I know you should do the 475 L and load it down (which is what I do) but here's your chance to demonstrate to Ruger what they should be building...
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Post by the priest on Aug 23, 2009 22:37:28 GMT -5
that's exactly what i was thinking. JT wrote an article a good while ago on this round that should give you a pile of loads for your trip. American Handgunner, Sept. 01
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Post by mike454 on Aug 24, 2009 7:55:48 GMT -5
Look at the Buffalo Bore +P+ 44 ammo suitable for a factory super blackhawk. It moves a 340 grain bullet at 1400fps. I don't know that that you'll gain much velocity from a five shot 44, though you'll lose a round of capacity. I went to alaska for brown bear a couple years ago and took a stock bisley in 45 colt loaded heavily. Ended up using a .375 H&H after the other hunter in camp shot his bear 5 times with a .375 and had to have the guide finish the bear with 4 more .375s. Lynn Thompson has a video out showing the 44 mag on Australian buffalo that might provide some insight.
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cubrock
.401 Bobcat
TLA fanatic and all around nice guy....
Posts: 2,875
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Post by cubrock on Aug 24, 2009 9:23:32 GMT -5
Since it is a Ruger hunt and you want to shoot a SA, I'd build a 480 Ruger Bisley like Ruger should have anyway. Ya, I know you should do the 475 L and load it down (which is what I do) but here's your chance to demonstrate to Ruger what they should be building... I like that thinking. I've told Ruger I'd buy a 5 shot Bisley .480. I also told them years ago I'd buy a .44 Special on the 50th Flat Top frame. They built that and I kept my word. Oh, how I long to keep my word on the .480! On another note, just in case anyone from Ruger is listening, I'd also buy a .44-40, .38-40, and .32-20 on the .357 Flat Top frame. |
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Post by sixshot on Aug 24, 2009 11:15:47 GMT -5
The folks who hunt professionaly in Africa like big, heavy bullets, they know from years of experinece that penetration is key, one other little thing thats important is, you have to hit what you're shooting at ;D so, you have to find your recoil threshold & now you've narrowed down your choices. Shooting monster loads in my opinion is going the wrong way, that is if you can't shoot them well. Its always an advantage to shoot the biggest & heaviest load you can hit with, many cover the first 2 but fail when it comes to hitting.
I too would like/love a 5 shot 480 Bisley, that would really be the raspberries!
When I went to Africa I took a FA 475 using Cast Performance 370 gr slugs & that thing would penetrate a locomotive! I could shoot it well but I couldn't shoot it very much, it stayed in Africa, my PH wanted to whack a buffalo with it & we worked out a trade, both were happy.
Bottom line, hitting comes first, bullet weight is second & power is #3, try doing it in reverse like most folks & bad things happen.
Dick
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Post by Markbo on Aug 24, 2009 13:06:21 GMT -5
Mr. Bane I have no idea what your experience is shooting big sixguns. Personally I would rather shoot a hot .45 Colt or a .475L than a .454. I just don't like the recoil impulse of the .454. I can handle the .475 much better.
A Ruger in .45 Colt will propel big heavy bullets at moderate velocities. A .475 will propel bigger, heavier bullets at moderate velocities and that seems to be key to the needed penetration to dangerous game - then again you didn't say you want to shoot buff with a sixgun so I am just guessing here. If you want to shoot smaller game, any factory .44 or .45 will do.
Remember if you DO go for heavier game, penetration is key and remember Linebaughs penetration testing in that the 430gr .475 was king of penetration - and NOT at maximum velocity.
Mike since you are family, I think Axe ought to lend you one of his. Specifically a heavy caliber .45 or preferably .475 - with the caveat it is built by Alan Harton. Alan is a wonderful human being and an incredible artist and your film using his name would be great for him.
Axe... what you say?
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