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Post by needsmostuff on Nov 18, 2015 16:42:56 GMT -5
I'm a fan of the 44 Special, but I like the Rossi handguns better than the Charter for small framed work. In the past I have had two Charter 44s that were both shot to useless looseness. Both lobed out tumbling keyholers with every bullet I tried. A little more to pack around but the Rossi 720 fills the bill much better for me.
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Post by Cholla on Nov 22, 2015 23:04:45 GMT -5
Yes, fed lots of heavy bullets they will shoot loose. This is pretty much to be expected with a lightweight, large caliber revolver. So you have two choices; either check the screws occasionally or Loctite them in place. I chose the former. The tumbling bullets issue, which I addressed in the second post of this thread, is also easily solved, larger diameter, harder bullets. TADA!
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Post by needsmostuff on Nov 23, 2015 10:58:24 GMT -5
Well Cholla I'm glad they work for you but my solutions were a little further out of reach and resulted, I believe, from issues resulting from engineers stretching a design too thinly. Constant grief with both guns was the silly cylinder latch release screw constantly moving in and out making cylinder operation unreliable. No , Loctite did not help for long. Loctite probably would have helped the hammer screw that kept working out but I never tried as I was tearing the gun down constantly. On one gun the pivot hole in the trigger was drilled on the edge of the trigger and cracked . Strangely designed trigger return on the other gun became intermittent and after several tear down (not easy to get to) cleanings and spring attention it remained unreliable. Bullets , I tried a lot , some very hard . and a well made gun should not require custom over sized bullets to function decently. Then there is the company. They have changed hands 3 or 4 times and offer little to no support for older guns not made by the current owner. All in all the whole experience was not worth the effort so I chose the not mentioned third choice and looked elsewhere for compact 44 specials.
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Post by bulasteve on Nov 23, 2015 11:24:31 GMT -5
Ok, yes the design was "stretched thin". Was never meant to be a high volume gun. Heck, you may have shot it out with all the testing. I won't even ask what pressure levels you were playing at. You found you needed more steel for your niche, obviously you are an experienced shooter and can make those kinda calls well on your own. It's just not your gun. Thank you for the info, problems to watch for, appreciated. Did you buy your CA Bulldog new ? My only question.
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Post by seak89 on Nov 23, 2015 14:45:28 GMT -5
Changed hands much like Colt, Winchester, S&W, Remington and so on.
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Post by needsmostuff on Nov 24, 2015 11:26:59 GMT -5
Ok, yes the design was "stretched thin". Was never meant to be a high volume gun. Heck, you may have shot it out with all the testing. I won't even ask what pressure levels you were playing at. You found you needed more steel for your niche, obviously you are an experienced shooter and can make those kinda calls well on your own. It's just not your gun. Thank you for the info, problems to watch for, appreciated. Did you buy your CA Bulldog new ? My only question. Hey , No problem as I suspect it is more about "Not the gun for ME" . Where I live I do not need a emergency only walk around big bore for animal protection as many north woods folks do. Snakeshot or longer range small bore is more the requirement for the threat level animals I may encounter when out and about. But I do like and use 44s. From my guns I expect long term reliability with out the need of ammo pampering or limited use. Now full disclosure on the guns I tried. True , they were used and of a different generation than the current manufacture. But before purchase they were carefully inspected and found to be , tight and in good shooting order. Virtually unused as may second hand Charters appear. As I stated before, I bought the second one because I thought possibly the first was a lemon and I really wanted it to be a viable gun. Second one turned out just as troublesome. Loads? Started out medium but quickly dropped to cowboy level loads due to shooting comfort. I don't believe I pounded them unmercifully . In the course of trying to get beyond the keyholeing thing they shot perhaps 300 to 400 rounds each before starting the downward spiral. Solutions. I hate the thought of waving the Rossi flag and in fact these are the only two I own. They are bigger (5 shot K frame sized)and heavier ( 3" stainless)but trouble free and remain tight. They also digest a steady diet of stouter loads than the CA ever got. The DAO one actually outperforms the S&W. Go figure.
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Post by bulasteve on Nov 24, 2015 11:53:37 GMT -5
Am enjoying the give n take, feedback. I found that mine needs bearing surface to find accuracy. Hence my fondness of Penn Bullets 185gr DEFWC. It shoots good at 5grs, and 7grs.of Unique.. Do have 255gr WFN's and a 265gr kinda SWc for when bears are in the 'hood. These only get 6grs of Unique.
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Post by bulasteve on Nov 29, 2015 8:25:30 GMT -5
Spent T-Day on the Rust Estate, on the Potomac, on Ball's Bluff. My Bulldog was my constant companion. Dog walking, dinner,traveling the Penn Turnpike,Black Fri shopping, etc.. It will now join me for the trip to hunting camp in Elk Co., Penn.. Bears, bobcats and coyotes, Oh My ! It won't be packed to actually hunt, that chore goes to the M1894 44mag and the new SBH 480. Wish me luck.
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fltbed
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 64
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Post by fltbed on Nov 29, 2015 12:16:04 GMT -5
While I really like the 240 gr LBT cast bullets in the 44 special, I just can’t tolerate the recoil out of the little Bulldog. After a little online research, I decided to try the Speer 200 gr Gold Dot. This bullet is designed for the 44 Special low velocities and is very accurate in my testings.
I worked up to 8.2 gr of Power Pistol for a velocity of 844 f.p.s. out of the little Bulldog. (Alliants online data shows 8.6 gr as being max for this bullet) I think it will suffice.
Jeff
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Post by Cholla on Nov 29, 2015 14:01:18 GMT -5
Well Cholla I'm glad they work for you but my solutions were a little further out of reach and resulted, I believe, from issues resulting from engineers stretching a design too thinly. Constant grief with both guns was the silly cylinder latch release screw constantly moving in and out making cylinder operation unreliable. No , Loctite did not help for long. Loctite probably would have helped the hammer screw that kept working out but I never tried as I was tearing the gun down constantly. On one gun the pivot hole in the trigger was drilled on the edge of the trigger and cracked . Strangely designed trigger return on the other gun became intermittent and after several tear down (not easy to get to) cleanings and spring attention it remained unreliable. Bullets , I tried a lot , some very hard . and a well made gun should not require custom over sized bullets to function decently. Then there is the company. They have changed hands 3 or 4 times and offer little to no support for older guns not made by the current owner. All in all the whole experience was not worth the effort so I chose the not mentioned third choice and looked elsewhere for compact 44 specials. Yep, I think you should stick with other type revolvers. As someone else mentioned, these revolvers aren't designed for repeated shooting with heavy loads, most aren't. Heck, it's my understanding that even the much vaunted S&W 29 will not stand up to constant use with full power loads. I really like mine as I can drop it in the inside pocket of my jacket and I soon forget it's there. I've shot it quite a bit with cast SWC's ranging from 247 to 258 grs., and although they shoot great, they have to be run pretty slow to keep recoil manageable, and cast fairly hard to grab the rifling. The little 185 gr. WC I use it just great, but I'd kind of like to try a soft-cast 185-190 gr. SWCHP. One of the custom mould makers did a run of moulds over on the Cast Boolit site that cast just such a bullet, but I don't think it's available at the moment. No matter, I seriously doubt a perpetrator is going to know the difference! CHT
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Post by bagdadjoe on Nov 30, 2015 11:30:39 GMT -5
The 8 grains Herco load with the 429421 225g bullets I listed above is nothing to sneeze at. The 25 yds accuracy of this little gun is nothing to sneeze at either. I don't shoot it a "lot" but neither do I the XDs in my belt right now. Years ago when I lived in a truly dangerous patch of the woods in upper E. Tenn.,where mutants abounded, I carried a Hi-Power in my waistband and a Bulldog in my rear pocket. I don’t know of any other sledge you can pocket with your hand on it and not be noticed. I had two previously and regretted selling them.
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Post by Frank V on Dec 17, 2015 17:49:33 GMT -5
bagdadjoe Would you care to share a little more about your 8grs of Herco load? Herco is near Unique in burning rate & I've used 7-1/2grs of Unique under a 200gr FP bullet designed for the .44-40 in the Bulldog. I'm getting over 800fps from this load, it's a bit snappy, but controlable. I like Herco in the .38 Special & might try it in the .44 Special. Thanks.
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Post by bagdadjoe on Dec 18, 2015 21:02:21 GMT -5
Like you say "snappy, but controllable". I used to be a recoil junkie, but my right hand is chronically slightly swollen, so no funny stuff these days. The Bulldog I had before this one had the rounded wooden factory grips and would eat my hand...the Pachmayrs let me shoot it fine with this load. Stout, but not abusive. Brian Pearce lists the Bulldog as a 22,000 psi gun and lists a Leadhead 44 255g Keith bullet with 8.5 g of Herco as a safe load.I used a lighter bullet, 225g and 8 g.Herco. That's about all I want in a carry load that I shoot occasionally. I tried an RCBS 250K and discarded it in favor of the lighter bullet and regulated the sights for it. I carry this load and have two speedloaders loaded with some unknown brand 215 flat nose swc's under some of my almost extinct 231...for no particular reason ;-)
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Post by bulasteve on Dec 19, 2015 9:26:39 GMT -5
I haven't bought any to try yet, but have often thought the 215gr SWC HP of Mr Thompson might be a winner in the Bulldog. Which then led me to think that the Bulldog would be a sweet 41 spec.. It's too bad that bore never attracted enough friends. First real snow of the yr here, drive home last night in whiteouts went from 45min to an hr n half. The bulldog will be on board while plowing and then going to buy a Subaru. My current favorite load and whats in it now, the speedloaders and speed strips is Matt's 250gr HP on 6grs of Unique. Accuracy matches the previous favorite, Penn's 185gr DEWC. on 7grs of Unique. My Bulldog at least, rewards more bore bearing surface. Light JHP's or RNFP casts give flyers and keyholes.
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Post by warhawk on Dec 19, 2015 12:35:25 GMT -5
Ok, yes the design was "stretched thin". Was never meant to be a high volume gun. Heck, you may have shot it out with all the testing. I won't even ask what pressure levels you were playing at. You found you needed more steel for your niche, obviously you are an experienced shooter and can make those kinda calls well on your own. It's just not your gun. Thank you for the info, problems to watch for, appreciated. Did you buy your CA Bulldog new ? My only question. Hey , No problem as I suspect it is more about "Not the gun for ME" . Where I live I do not need a emergency only walk around big bore for animal protection as many north woods folks do. Snakeshot or longer range small bore is more the requirement for the threat level animals I may encounter when out and about. But I do like and use 44s. From my guns I expect long term reliability with out the need of ammo pampering or limited use. Now full disclosure on the guns I tried. True , they were used and of a different generation than the current manufacture. But before purchase they were carefully inspected and found to be , tight and in good shooting order. Virtually unused as may second hand Charters appear. As I stated before, I bought the second one because I thought possibly the first was a lemon and I really wanted it to be a viable gun. Second one turned out just as troublesome. Loads? Started out medium but quickly dropped to cowboy level loads due to shooting comfort. I don't believe I pounded them unmercifully . In the course of trying to get beyond the keyholeing thing they shot perhaps 300 to 400 rounds each before starting the downward spiral. Solutions. I hate the thought of waving the Rossi flag and in fact these are the only two I own. They are bigger (5 shot K frame sized)and heavier ( 3" stainless)but trouble free and remain tight. They also digest a steady diet of stouter loads than the CA ever got. The DAO one actually outperforms the S&W. Go figure. I'm a fan of the Rossi 720 myself. I have owned a few of the Charter Bulldogs and a few of the Rossi's. I don't have any of either at the moment. But I'll take a Rossi any day. Ideally I'd like to find one of the fixed sight Rossis, then swap in the spur hammer and trigger.
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