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Post by cddogfan1 on Sept 25, 2014 14:57:18 GMT -5
I am a general contractor and one of my Carpenter Subs was killed last night. The full story is not out but here is what I know. His house was broken into earlier this week and some guns and a vehicle were stolen. He filed the proper reports with the sheriffs dept. Well last night the Sheriffs Dept. issued a know knock warrant on him. They kicked the door down while he was asleep. He woke and grabbed a gun a proceeded down a hallway. When he rounded a corner he was shot and killed. I know I do not know all the detail but I just think it could have been avoided. I am hearing the warrant was for drugs. And he possibly could have been a dealer I do not know. But I just think about it and think I would have done the same thing. If some one kicks your door down in the middle of the night unannounced are you not going to try and defend your self.
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Post by magnumwheelman on Sept 25, 2014 15:07:38 GMT -5
had this conversation concerning gun confiscation just the other day... could also be an issue if you were splitting up, or getting a divorce, & your former partner tells law enforcement or BATF guys you have illegal guns, drugs, contraband, etc... in either case, you could get a no knock warrant... it could be better for some involved, if you died as a result of the search...
I'm personally ( completely law abiding ), & have friends on the local PD & SWAT, & am not in favor of them
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Post by seancass on Sept 25, 2014 19:37:04 GMT -5
From the facts as you present them, I see no justification for a no-knock warrant. I hope the judge that issued it gets to sit on the other side of the bench for that man's death. Of course he won't and I'd bet no one else will either.
Well, as long as murdering a few people makes us all safer, then no-knock warrants are perfectly necessary.
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Post by zac0419 on Sept 25, 2014 21:02:30 GMT -5
They are too easily justified in my opinion. If you know an armed murderer is inside and have visually confirmed this, maybe it could be justified. But for drugs... No way.
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Post by nolongcolt on Sept 25, 2014 22:19:37 GMT -5
I generally tend to lean towards the police in deadly force situations, but here? Not sure at all, it will depend on why they were there of course, but I don't like this idea of kicking peoples doors down for drugs either. Come during the day, bring a warrant and do it right. This guy died for nothing other than trying to defend himself as far as we can see. If he had shot the cop first and then was arrested, (unlikely), he would surely get life in prison for it, even if he didn't do anything wrong. Lets face it. A lot of things really suck these days!
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Post by tek4260 on Sept 25, 2014 22:32:41 GMT -5
It's simply piss poor all the way around. I suppose the LEO are in favor because it lets them get their kicks from being gung ho, ect... I suppose they feel like they have something to prove.
A good officer of the law would simply spend about 3 minutes learning the mans habits and approach him in the open in a firm and professional manner. But that would require LEO to acknowledge that you are their equal, which will never happen in todays world.
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Post by mnimrod45 on Sept 25, 2014 22:57:53 GMT -5
I have never heard of such a thing as a no knock warrant. I have heard rumors of them but they don't exist in my state, maybe elsewhere I guess. I have served many warrants while on SWAT and on other teams and have never even heard of one being executed. There is no reason for it and there is no judge I know of that would issue one, especially on a drug case. Even when we are doing search warrant for homicide suspects that are known to be armed, we must knock and announce and the general rule is to do it three times before hitting the door.
It is possible that it happened the way it was stated but if someone died, the full facts will not be out for many months so I urge you to not jump to any conclusions until all the facts are out.
Case in point, one of our recent shootings where the public thinks we "murdered" a man because there is a blurry 5 minute home surveillance video taken from 100 yards away from a less than police friendly neighbor of the suspect getting shot posted on Youtube. What the public does not see is the first 30 minutes of the confrontation where the man was firing at officers with a fully automatic M16 and had them pinned down behind there cars for 30 minutes. The cars were full of bullet holes until an armored vehicle arrived and saved them. It got even worse but I won't go there on this forum. It was a bad deal all the way around.
The public does not know the details and doesn't even seem to care, but they are judging. Please just wait until the facts are out before making judgement, and when I say facts, not what the news decides to post. If you want to know the facts, pull the entire police report yourself, pictures, videos, everything, then make your decision. The news will play pieces, like they always do, for their agenda.
I agree, if my door came crashing down in the middle of the night, or anytime, and I had no idea what was going on, it would be met with a significant amount of firepower and I would expect every American to do the same. I'm sorry for what happened but I'm guessing there was more to it.
mnimrod45
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Post by dougader on Sept 25, 2014 23:30:00 GMT -5
I know that officers have been shot during no-knock raids and the homeowner cleared at trial. I'd grab the rifle, too, but I would wait behind cover and let whoever come to me.
I don't want to shoot anyone, but if the door is kicked in I'm shooting anyone who comes in. There's no reason for anyone to kick in my door. You want something from me, give me a call, don't come like a thief or murderer in the middle of the night.
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Post by bigbores on Sept 26, 2014 0:18:38 GMT -5
I know that officers have been shot during no-knock raids and the homeowner cleared at trial. I'd grab the rifle, too, but I would wait behind cover and let whoever come to me. I don't want to shoot anyone, but if the door is kicked in I'm shooting anyone who comes in. There's no reason for anyone to kick in my door. You want something from me, give me a call, don't come like a thief or murderer in the middle of the night. +1 There's better options! |
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Post by cddogfan1 on Sept 27, 2014 8:09:40 GMT -5
Latest news. They have searched his house for 2 days now and they have found nothing. It really seems a shame the sheriffs dept handled this the wrong way. Everyone I have talked to in our small community seems to feel the same way.
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Post by seancass on Sept 27, 2014 11:03:51 GMT -5
Find a few attorneys who feel the same way. Sounds like some high level people (the judge) need to answer for murder!
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Post by schmidty on Sept 27, 2014 11:39:53 GMT -5
These legal issue type discussions are almost futile on a discussion forum. Heck, the courts cannot even seem to achieve consensus on them. That said, about all I can comment on is that a homeowner/victim in these cases could easily make the argument that they did not have adequate time to consider what actions, if any to take. I mean, someone comes busting through your door - by surprise - at a weird hour - you really don't have the time to ID them as cops or robbers. Furthermore, if you are a law-abiding citizen, you'd have no reason to think that the thugs rushing in your house were cops. Assuming that one survives the incident....a good lawyer should easily be able to argue that...I mean, the courts could hardly call it premeditated.
And to the OP, I'm sorry to hear what happened to your buddy.
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Post by tangocharlie on Sept 27, 2014 17:15:49 GMT -5
It has been a couple (or three) years ago now, one of the sooper-dooper drug interdiction teams in metro Atlanta served a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night. A couple of problems became immediately evident - they were at the wrong address due to an accidental inversion of house numbers, AND, the homeowner that met them with a firearm in hand that was promptly shot dead as a hammer was an 87 year old great grandmother. No do-overs when things go this far south...
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cj3a
.30 Stingray
Posts: 403
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Post by cj3a on Sept 27, 2014 19:00:32 GMT -5
I really think it would be easy to just arrest him at a job site than to go thru this.
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Post by maxcactus on Sept 27, 2014 21:14:57 GMT -5
I really think it would be easy to just arrest him at a job site than to go thru this. +1. I've watched the police become more and more militarized in my lifetime and it troubles me. I have two family members who are LEOs, and even their attitudes on this subject trouble me at times. I've seen plenty of no-knock warrants on Cops, some of which were served in the county in which I reside. One cop I know summarized things pretty simply by saying "There are really only two types of cops, weightlifters and chess players." meaning those who use their brains/reason first vs. those who resort to force first. This is obviously a bit of a generalization but I think there's a fair amount of truth to it. I have huge respect for the men in blue but it seems that many of the arrests that are made with SWAT teams and/or an overwhelming show of force could be just as easily executed with a little intel and patience. |
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