I think I ruined a barrel.

[seancass]

The gun: A S&W 64-3 PPC, caliber 38 Special, 1.06" OD Extra heavy target barrel, Wichita 4-position sight system, slick action job, lightly chamfered chambers to ease speed-loading. Gun is a used competition gun, so it has somewhere between 3000(fire by me) and one million rounds fired thru it. Probably closer to 3k, but I honestly don't know.

The problem: When cleaning it, I expected it to be fairly dirty as I'd put a good 1000 rounds thru it since cleaning. Pushing a brush down the bore, it "jumps" forward as if there's a void in the barrel, then gets tight again. This void is roughly 1.5 inches from the cylinder gap and is roughly 1/2 inch long, as felt with the cleaning rod and jag. I don't have a bore scope, but looking down the bore after cleaning I can clearly see a dark ring, most prominently on the bottom side of the barrel. It's dark on the lands and the groves. Hard to see anywhere but the bottom of the bore. Unfortunately, it's impossible to photograph using the camera I have, but I'll keep trying. Interestingly, the bore is not leaded after the dark area/void.

The Loads: This gun has seen mostly light loads of Unique under various 140-158gr bullets. Very standard stuff strait from various loading manuals. Probably a couple dozen rounds using TrailBoss. Recently I started trying Ramshot Silhouette powder. It's performed very will and I've really liked it. Unless it somehow ate my barrel. This gun is babied, because, ironically, I didn't want to wear it out. All the loads it has seen have been from the lighter end of standard loads. Nothing way under or over. In total, we're looking at something around 1500-2000 rounds, mostly loaded with Unique, and another 800-1200 loaded with Silhouette.

Accuracy: Three weeks ago, this gun (dirty, loaded with Silhouette and cheap bullets) was missing by 5-10 FEET at 100 yards. Seemed strange, so I blamed my cheap bullets from the bottom of an old box. I loaded up some fresh stuff with several different bullets, nearly all commercial cast, Unique and Silhouette powders. Two weeks ago, went out and shot again, could hit targets off hand double action at 100 yards. Every load seemed phenomenal. I went home blaming cheap bullets for the poor accuracy I saw the week before. 1 week ago, went to the range and had ok-good accuracy at 50 yards. I wasn't looking for accuracy, I was just out playing, but there was nothing to suggest anything was wrong. That is, until I cleaned it after that range session.


So, any ideas what I did to cause this?

A fully (re)built custom revolver wasn't really in the budget for this year, so my most likely course of action is to keep shooting it until it proves completely worn out, as judged by accuracy.

I guess everybody loves pics! Here's a quick n dirty pic of her.

Thanks for any suggest or advice you might have.

[Fowler]

Clean the barrel perfectly and completely, then to back to a proven load. If it shoots the old tried and true load then keep shooting it until it goes south.

These PPC guns normally make a living with swaged hollow base wadcutters at very mild velocities, 750fps or so. Typically these bullets and loads hold together to 50 yards and then destabilize fast after that so what it does at 100 yards may or may not be all that telling. These loads also have nearly zero wear on the guns, they will often shoot as well or better after 100k rounds through it as it did on day one.

Hopefully it is fine and will continue to give you years of shooting in the future.

[trueat1stlight]

Wow- that's really odd! Nice looking sixgun you have there!

-John

[dmize]

If it makes you feel any better I don't see how you could have possibly harmed that chunk of steel with a 38 special.
Is it possible that the barrel always had this issue and the crappy bullets made you discover it?

[nolongcolt]

Is it possible you had a squib that stuck in the bore, then blew it out with the next shot? Does happen.

[jiminyt]

My first thought was a squib also. Especially easy to miss in a heavy revolver shooting light loads. No sign of an exterior deformation on the barrel?

[tek4260]

Good reason to stay away from the progressives

[seancass]

I've cleaned the gun before and not noticed this issue. It was immediately obvious on the first stroke of the bore brush. The heavy barrel made me think it was more likely some kind of erosion instead of something like a squib.

A squib is certainly possible, but definitely unlikely to go unnoticed. My loads aren't That light.

I'll look for exterior deformation, shiney barrel should make it easy to spot. With the one inch barrel the walls of it are over .35inch thick. I feel like I'd stack bullets in the bore before bulging the barrel.

I don't have a progressive press. But anybody can make mistakes!

How would a bulged barrel explain the darkness in the bore at that spot?

[bradshaw]

seancass.... yes, a goose egg often shows up as a slightly darkened ring or a wave in the silver of the bore. Usual m.o. of a squib----good primer, no powder----is for bullet to stick in the forcing cone. Half way from cylinder to barrel; prevents cylinder rotation. Thus, to rotate or remove cylinder, bullet must be tapped back into chamber. A squib in an autoloader usually drives bullet into bore far enough for another round to be chambered----and fired----behind it.

Other possibilities for a goose egg are snow, ice, or mud in bore----which doesn't dovetail your story. Also, a jacket or skirt left in bore. A bullet shooting through a jacket tends to leave a more graphic impression.

Years ago I loaded .38 hollow base wad cutters over what turned out to be a charge too stiff for the bullet. A charge not stiff at all in the Model 19 Smith, a light revolver. Too stiff for the bullet, nevertheless, as triple holes through target indicated skirt blowing off.

Just some idea material.
David Bradshaw

[CraigC]

Aug 7, 2014 12:01:44 GMT -5 tek4260 said:

Good reason to stay away from the progressives

You can check for double charges and missing charges just as easily with a progressive as you can any other press. Or you can rely on a powder check die.

[seancass]

Checked for exterior signs of barrel bulge and saw none. I used the reflection of a door frame so i had a perfectly straight line reflecting off the barrel. All I learned is that this gun is Really well polished!

[tek4260]

Aug 8, 2014 7:27:47 GMT -5 CraigC said:

Aug 7, 2014 12:01:44 GMT -5 tek4260 said:

Good reason to stay away from the progressives

You can check for double charges and missing charges just as easily with a progressive as you can any other press. Or you can rely on a powder check die.

Do people not use them? I'd venture to say that 9 out of 10 people that have a squib or a double charge are using a progressive press. The other 1 out of 10 probably isn't weighing each charge but rather throwing each charge then seating bullets seperately.

I suppose it all comes down to the person loading in the end. There is a lot going on with each pull of the progressive and it is easy to miss a mistake. Or maybe a bullet doesn't start right and they lower the handle a bit and straighten it out and inadvertently double charge a case in the process, ect.

I load slow, but shoot slow too, so it works out. My only issue is when I shoot across the chrono and think it is broken because the same number keeps popping up on the screen

With a 100% loading density and each charge thrown light and trickled up to final weight, it isn't uncommon for a 10 shot string to have single digit variation in FPS for the string. Simply relying on a powder measure and throwing charges usually results in 50fps variation or more, even with ball powder.

[CraigC]

I have no idea what people do. All I know is that if a cartridge makes it through with anything but the correct powder charge, it's the reloader's fault, not the press. It's careless reloading. There are WAAAAAY too many people running progressives without issue to arbitrarily dismiss them as the sole source of squib loads.

If I thought I had to weigh every charge to get an accurate handload, I wouldn't bother handloading. It's unnecessary and takes up way too much time. Obviously the person cranking out 400-500rds an hour or more on a progressive needs a lot more volume than would be possible weighing and trickling every charge. Whatever serves one's purpose and makes one happy. Personally, I'd rather be shooting than worrying about single digit variations.

[tek4260]

Yep we all look for different things in our quest. Also, I am not blaming the progressive but rather the user. Hell there are more people who can't walk and chew gum than we realize, and they get into reloading. Even a normally sharp fellow can let life get their mind away from what they are doing.

[CraigC]

It is surely the user's fault. Too many probably get in a hurry cranking them out and forget the basics. It's easy to do. I just make it a habit of looking at the powder charge every time I place a bullet in the case. I'm not at all familiar with any progressive but the 650 and I do use a powder check die. So the only thing I have to worry about, aside from remembering to keep the case feed tube fed, is a backwards primer, which does happen on occasion.