9mm Accuracy Load

[curmudgeon]

Axe, sorry about my post not including cast bullets , I do not remember if I ever shot any cast in a 9mm. Actually my 210-5 was for the smaller varmints, with good luck when Calling with Johnny Stewart and the Burnham Bros. There are more guns and bbls available today, but after introducing 90, 108, and 112 grain bullets for the 9mm I kinda lost interest in such a small cartridge. The 9mm is a borderline defense cartridge and too small for anything other than varmints IMHO, We had the Luger, Mod 39, MAB, and the Beretta Brigadier, those we the basic choices. But its still a 9mm parabellum regardless if the gun.
Loading the 9mm reminds me of loading for the 17's fun but tedious. Sorry no cast info.

[AxeHandle]

No problem Lee. I'll take some resonsibility. The wife says I'm not a good question asker.
Learned long ago to pick the brains of people who do what I'm doing. Everyone knows something the rest of us don't. In todays shooting/reloading environment with limited availability of some componenets we have to make the most of what we have. In addition to less recoil the 9mm throws less lead and burns less powder so if it will shoot we need to use it. Additionally I see the old bullseye shooters 10+ years older than myself having elbows and shoulders replaced. I don't want that but don't want to stop shooting either. Picked up a 32 to play with last year.. Early word was that they won't shoot at 50 yards. Shooters were having custom .308 barrels made for them. The hollow base wadcutter and Lapua brass were the only way to go for any hopes of shooting well. Asking around a bit I found a shooter who had a load that would shot possible scores with double ended wadcutters and starline brass. He had learned that the trick was to weigh and sort his brass by weight. Never know where the vital pieces of information are going to come from.

[curmudgeon]

Looks like a Hammerli Int'l Rapid fire 32 cal. Don't know what the European factory load would be. If I had the gun I'd buy a box of the best match ammo and see. I've heard of weigh and sort brass for BR. But never heard of for pistol. When I shot I'ntl Rapid fire NRA style. I Used a HI-Standard ISU, 22 Short. But I do think real Int'l Rapid fire calls for Centerfire 32 cal or larg??.

[AxeHandle]

That one is a Walther GSP-C. The europeans originally built the 32 semi auto match guns for 25 meter international centerfire. All the centerire cartridge guns are long gone from international competition. Nothing left but 22 rimfire and airguns. We new world guys have tried to adapt the 32s to the centerfire match in conventional outdoor pistol. That brings in 50 yard slow fire. They shoot good at 25 yards. 50 yards is a different story. Seems that their straight blow back nature allows case weight to have a significant effect on 50 yard accuracy that is not readily apparent at 25 yards. Factory ammo was cool when Uncle Sam provided me all I needed of the best ammo made. Actually bought a box of factory HB wadcutter ammo at the employee price when I first bought the gun. Danged close to $2 per round. Figure a minimum of 500 rounds a month for practice and two matches and double that during the peak shooting summer months. Way to much for my shooting budget.

[cmillard]

when I had my bar-sto barrel on my sig 226, it shot heavier bullets much better. although I did not shoot any cast bullets, it definitely favored heavy jacketed bullets, especially 147 grain xtp. I shot those with hs-6 powder, which was very dirty, but very accurate.

[Ken O'Neill]

By accident I stumbled across a bit of info last night reporting that Sig's Factory Accuracy Standard for the 226 was 2 inches maximum @ 50 meters.

[Deleted]

I have pretty limited information on 9mm target loads too. I did find a reference in an old magazine about Irv Stone remarking that he would choose a 9mm in a 1911 over 38 Super if accuracy were the major consideration. Then the writer blew the rest of the article talking about making buckets of 124 gr 9mm ammo, loaded with 4 gr of Bullseye. The story started with promise, and ended up in left field. Most IPSC shooters seem concerned about function and economy when they think of the 9mm, long range accuracy doesn't seem to interest them. Outside of this, all I have to add are points that a man with your experience already knows. Matched high quality cases, good primers, proper bullet sizing (I think I'd favor a 125 or 147 gr design from a really good mold maker), and that sort of thing. I'm thinking the military match shooters (AMU) might be the best source for information on loads.

[jd]

I've never fired any of my 9's on paper targets past 25 yards, and I don't have any cast bullet loads in the accuracy range that you are looking for, but I'm happy to tell you what has shot well in my 9's...

My most accurate 9 is a FN Browing Hi Power GP Competition. Funky rear sight, but it works, and overall the gun is amazing. Most accurate load that I found for it was a Remington 115 grain JHP, 8.0 grains of Blue Dot, CCI SP primer, with an overall loaded length of 1.120" or greater (depends on what your gun likes and will function with...). This load does about 1,400 fps out of the 7" barrel of my GP Comp. It is about 1,250 fps or so out of my Sig 226's. It has also shot well in most of my other 9mm's. I would start at about 7.5 grains of Blue Dot and work your way up to see what shoots well in your gun.

My opinion is that one of the keys to accurate 9mm ammo is overall loaded length. Too many loading manuals and factory loads are really on the short side. I've found that loading to a longer overall length improves accuracy. Load to as long as length as will function in your gun, magazines, and the throat of your barrel. Just like a rifle, you want the bullet reasonably close to the rifling so it doesn't rattle around unsupported before slamming into the rifling.... Just my experience and opinion....

[curmudgeon]

jd, I'll agree with you 100%, but to what avail? So youn have a 9mm that will shoot 2" at 50 yds, what does that mean, of what practical value either on paper or in the field. Too many guns will already do tht that have practical value in hunting or target. Hummmmmm

[jd]

The GP Comp is a world class target pistol and is often used as such in europe. It's accuracy is as good as you'll find out of any semi-auto and I don't think that you can find another gun capable of its' accuracy for anywhere near its price (Certainly not for what I paid for this one..). It is also superb long range plinker.... It's the 9mm equivalent of my S&W model 41. It is like saying what good is the S&W Model 41... The model 41 isn't nearly as good of a field gun as my S&W 617 or my Ruger Single Six, but it is an extremely accurate target pistol and fun to shoot and would be one of the last guns I would ever get rid of...

The Hi Power GP Comp actually does make a decent field gun for coyotes and varmints. You can load 115 - 124 grain bullets to 1,500 fps, and it shoots quite flat, but then so does a 357 mag or a hot loaded 32-20. Very impressive on gophers and prarie dogs...

I like accurate guns, and the GP Comp is certainly as accurate as even the most expensive semi-auto that I can buy.....

If I had to use the "What good is it?" standard and "An XYZ will work just as well." I could get rid of 95% of my firearms... I like high quality, accurate, unique firearms for just being what they are..... Next thing you know somebody will be asking what good is my USFA 32-20 Flat Top Target with the color cased frame and ivory grips ...

I gotta make sure my wife doesn't see this conversation.... I can hear her now "Even other shooters are asking what good are all these guns, so why don't we sell a few of them."

[curmudgeon]

jd: I see your point but you are missing mine. What for ? Cause I want one. Never too many guns. But to wring out the last bit of accuracy out of a NA Arms mini revolver, or something similar leaves me cold. Different strokes for different folks. I don't think anybody can say I have not been a tinkerer in all calibers and all handguns, to what avail. I don't know, but I've had fun doing it. There are da-- few handguns I've not owned or shot. seldom keep one very long, if not something unique about it, its gone after I've played with it a bit. Have killed several squirrels with a Mod 41, but still own a Mod 17 My H-S ISU shot better than my 2 different 41's

[jd]

Curmudgeon,

Everyone is a bit different in what they're looking for and like. By trade, I'm an engineer, and I find it interesting how different firearm designers went about solving the same problem. Some guns I like and keep just for that aspect, like lugers for instance... Fascinating how they were designed and the intricate manufacturing used to fabricate them.... Freedom Arms revolvers are amazing in their workmanship... Some guns I have and keep just because they are excellent for their intended use, like Ruger Blackhawks are terriffic field guns and Sig makes some first rate combat handguns.

While I wouldn't try to make a NA mini revolver into a target pistol, I do find it interesting to see what some guns are capable of, and how well they fulfill the function that their designer intended them for. I also find it rewarding when I can make one better for the purpose that I want to use it. For example, I have a Ruger Super Single Six that with some work from me, and some help from Ben Forkin, shoots as well as most top notch 22 target pistols. As a field gun, it doesn't need to be that accurate, but I like that it is because when I miss, I know it was me and not the gun...

Maybe it's just curiosity that makes me want to wring out the last bit of accuracy from a 9mm target pistol, or a 32-20 revolver, etc.. but I find it interesting, and I learn a lot about the gun and get a glimpse into the mind of the man who designed it too.....