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Post by Markbo on Aug 2, 2009 10:55:19 GMT -5
tw's thread on the .38 special got me to thinking. How do you guys or how have you guys, trained for 'under duress' shooting?
As everyone surely knows, I am not LEO, but have taken civilian training classes to make sure I am as prepared as I can be. One of the things the different trainers have tried to do is place us under duress during drills to approximate the adrenaline flooded senses that might occur during a self defence shooting.
That basically consisted of Boot Camp Sergeant type yelling and screaming as we went through any particular drill. I have to say, I never felt ... afraid or intimidated... I had to keep from smiling most of the time.
Sooooo... how do you or how would you approximate this duress on your own? Perhaps just running some to get your heart rate way up and run right to the line? Would this be useful during dry fire practice on my own? I'm not sure how my range would look at me jogging around and running up to the line of fire. They don't even allow double taps, let alone using cover or alternate shooting positions.
What could I do on my own to train better?
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Post by J. T. Ammons on Aug 3, 2009 5:47:45 GMT -5
That's a good question. It's difficult to simulate true stress in a training environment. I have settled on two methods.
1. Shooting against a stopwatch. Any number of timed drills, including jam clearing and reloads.
2. Race matches. Any race matches. I like bowling pins. Our local gun club is quite small, we only have about 45 members. We don't have the budget for a full IPSC type affair, so we try to improvise where we can... In practice, I'll shoot against my wife or a student I am training.
Not much for true "stress," but trying to hone time off my own drills or outshoot a buddy in a match is the best I've got...
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Post by rexster on Aug 3, 2009 15:17:10 GMT -5
Force-on-force training will certainly up the adrenaline. This is best done with something like "sim" guns under very controlled conditions. Short of that, shooting against another shooter with a dueling tree should work. Even shooting to the right of someone whose autopistol spews brass at you will up the stress.
I have never shot formal competition, but have found that even informal competition will really up the stress level.
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Post by twbryan on Aug 3, 2009 18:23:09 GMT -5
And here I was going to suggest rabid weasels in the undershorts. You have to simulate stress then you'll need to bump up the respiration rate. Something like doing the hundred yard dash and picking up your gun. To simulate the horror and dismay of someone trying to take your life is harder,maybe pretend your wife just told you she's pregnant?
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Post by parson45 on Aug 5, 2009 5:20:36 GMT -5
Or your girlfriend just told your wife she's pregnant.
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Post by J. T. Ammons on Aug 5, 2009 8:35:04 GMT -5
And your wife subsequently starts shooting at you? Now THAT's duress...
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c.r.
.30 Stingray
"I mainly just know about possums."
Posts: 392 
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Post by c.r. on Aug 5, 2009 9:12:41 GMT -5
Or your girlfriend just told your wife she's pregnant. i just spit my breakfast sandwich on my desk  FUNNY! |
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Post by parson45 on Aug 5, 2009 10:52:35 GMT -5
Thanks, CR. It's nice to know that my warped sense of humor occassionally amuses someone other than myself.
To a real answer for the question: The best thing I've found is competition. IPSC or IDPA, even cowboy if you go into it with a training mindset. If you just shoot the "game," no matter which game, it won' t help as much.
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Post by AxeHandle on Aug 5, 2009 17:08:02 GMT -5
Competition is the answer.... Now I don't mean shooting a match just to participate.. I mean shooting to win! Nothing like waiting on the last target to turn, knowing you need a clean target to win and to literally be able to hear your heartbeat in your throat... Yeah, thay say to stay away from the scoreboard but even if you don't look your "buddies" will let you know if you are in the running to win. The funny thing that I found is that after 20 years of competition the feeling in the gut is still there... I could just shoot in spite of it...
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Post by flyfisher66048 on Aug 6, 2009 7:09:10 GMT -5
There is nothing like force-on-force training to up your training to the next level. I took a class from Gabe Saurez, and it changed the way I train. The class used airsoft guns, lots cheaper than simunitions. We get together once every few months to stab and shoot each other. Remember to have a plan and training objectives such as "Train against a close range knife attack" The plan details how you are going to do meet the training objective. If you don't do this, it just turns into a game of cops and robbers.
Be sure to where a paintball mask, those plastic bbs will put an eye out. The guys attacking with the kife need to be fully covered up with mask, sweat shirt, gloves (very important), etc. However, the folks being training should not be armored, the sting of the bb reinforces the learning:-) It always makes me think, as I rub the ouchy spot in the center of my chest.
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Post by Whitespider on Aug 12, 2009 17:59:27 GMT -5
Ask your wife to stand behind you, holding a shovel, while you shoot. Ask her to whack you on the back of the head if you miss a shot or take longer than 8-seconds to hit 6 targets. ;D If your wife is anything like mine she'll help just because there's a chance she gets to whack me with a shovel... Heck, just having my wife stand behind me, holding a shovel, even if I didn't ask her to whack me, would increase the stress level by 1000-percent.  |
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c.r.
.30 Stingray
"I mainly just know about possums."
Posts: 392
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Post by c.r. on Aug 12, 2009 22:34:32 GMT -5
Ask your wife to stand behind you, holding a shovel, while you shoot. Ask her to whack you on the back of the head if you miss a shot or take longer than 8-seconds to hit 6 targets. ;D If your wife is anything like mine she'll help just because there's a chance she gets to whack me with a shovel... Heck, just having my wife stand behind me, holding a shovel, even if I didn't ask her to whack me, would increase the stress level by 1000-percent. this reminds me of something one of my elementary school teachers used to teach us something. similar to the Pavlov's dog thing. All I remember is we stood behind another student and swatted them in the head with a ruler when the teacher jingled a bell or something. basically we where suppose to see a flinch associated with the ring-a-ling of the bell. ah, the good ol' days |
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Aug 15, 2009 6:17:44 GMT -5
I'm with Axehandle...shooting in serious competition with the goal of winning. As BJ said "there are no second place winners"
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robl
.375 Atomic
These were the good ole days!
Posts: 1,415
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Post by robl on Aug 17, 2009 16:03:41 GMT -5
Mas Ayoob and his friend Bob Smith (A Paramedic) injected themselves with adrenaline (?)and then shot a qualifier to simulate stress.
I used to shoot competition and do force on force training. they both help, as long as one doesn't get too wrapped up into the gamesmanship.
We used a bike to get the heart rate up to simulate Airman SP Andrew Brown's feat of arms: M-9 against an active shooter with an AK at 70 plus yards AFTER riding his bike a mile or so to respond. The SP won, how's THAT for shooting under stress!
Rob
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Post by texashoosier on Sept 22, 2009 18:42:59 GMT -5
Mas Ayoob and his friend Bob Smith (A Paramedic) injected themselves with adrenaline (?)and then shot a qualifier to simulate stress. A half dozen diet pills washed down with a couple cups of strong coffee might do it.  |
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