Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Dec 31, 2013 9:55:17 GMT -5
I built what I believe was the first 45-7 Contender, before the factory, mid 70's for Hal Swiggwtt. Several years later JD Jones said he built the first 45-70, I found that strange because I loaned him my 45-70 reamer built with a rim cutter by Dave Manson before he started Manson reamers. FWIW JD built a 45/70 barrel for me somewhere between 1975 and 1980 it was a fantastic deer gun snapped necks with head shots. Always admired the Howdah TCs was able to mate the barrel with a limited run IMSHA non engraved frame. I have always regretted selling the gun.
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Post by jiminyt on Dec 31, 2013 11:16:45 GMT -5
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shorty500
.327 Meteor
too many dirty harry movies created me!
Posts: 911
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Post by shorty500 on Dec 31, 2013 12:59:55 GMT -5
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Post by bradshaw on Jan 2, 2014 14:21:24 GMT -5
Len.... a note on the unetched Contender frames made for IHMSA. Frames without image etched on the sades are from an edition ordered by Elgin Gates. i requested the plain-side receives for the plain aesthetic, which Elgin agreed to. As the edition neared completion, Warren Center told me that the rejection rate was quite high, that to etch imagery on the frame concealed casting flaws----the original reason for the etching in the first place. The casting flaws in no way represent interior voids, but relate to molding the receiver with exterior surface close to finished. The "flaws" showed as surface texture after polishing.
Shooters should know that polishing was considered a very important part of manufacturing the Contender, and the craft requires "time on the mountain." To see what I mean, take a close look at the octagon barrels. I always held Warren Center and Ken French and others at T/C in the highest regard, and respected their effort to make the Contender a versatile, high class single shot for blue collar marksmen/markswomen. Some of the bores were a little rough, but T/C would replace a problem barrel in a second. In measure of participation, the Contender elevated competitive marksmanship higher than any other single shot. David Bradshaw
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2014 17:24:57 GMT -5
I miss the old TC. I've heard a lot of complaints about the company under S&Ws ownership.
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Jan 2, 2014 18:47:26 GMT -5
Len.... a note on the unetched Contender frames made for IHMSA. Frames without image etched on the sades are from an edition ordered by Elgin Gates. i requested the plain-side receives for the plain aesthetic, which Elgin agreed to. As the edition neared completion, Warren Center told me that the rejection rate was quite high, that to etch imagery on the frame concealed casting flaws----the original reason for the etching in the first place. The casting flaws in no way represent interior voids, but relate to molding the receiver with exterior surface close to finished. The "flaws" showed as surface texture after polishing. Shooters should know that polishing was considered a very important part of manufacturing the Contender, and the craft requires "time on the mountain." To see what I mean, take a close look at the octagon barrels. I always held Warren Center and Ken French and others at T/C in the highest regard, and respected their effort to make the Contender a versatile, high class single shot for blue collar marksmen/markswomen. Some of the bores were a little rough, but T/C would replace a problem barrel in a second. In measure of participation, the Contender elevated competitive marksmanship higher than any other single shot. David Bradshaw That is interesting I never knew the etching was to cover up imperfections The blank sides at least in my opinion look much better than the etching. I thought they were so unusual I bought a couple of frames and with a reasonable length 45-70 barrel a set of steel sights it made a great big bore hunting handgun
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Jan 2, 2014 21:28:32 GMT -5
Len.... a note on the unetched Contender frames made for IHMSA. Frames without image etched on the sades are from an edition ordered by Elgin Gates. i requested the plain-side receives for the plain aesthetic, which Elgin agreed to. As the edition neared completion, Warren Center told me that the rejection rate was quite high, that to etch imagery on the frame concealed casting flaws----the original reason for the etching in the first place. The casting flaws in no way represent interior voids, but relate to molding the receiver with exterior surface close to finished. The "flaws" showed as surface texture after polishing. Shooters should know that polishing was considered a very important part of manufacturing the Contender, and the craft requires "time on the mountain." To see what I mean, take a close look at the octagon barrels. I always held Warren Center and Ken French and others at T/C in the highest regard, and respected their effort to make the Contender a versatile, high class single shot for blue collar marksmen/markswomen. Some of the bores were a little rough, but T/C would replace a problem barrel in a second. In measure of participation, the Contender elevated competitive marksmanship higher than any other single shot. David Bradshaw That is interesting I never knew the etching was to cover up imperfections The blank sides at least in my opinion look much better than the etching. I thought they were so unusual I bought a couple of frames and with a reasonable length 45-70 barrel a set of steel sights it made a great big bore hunting handgun There were 400 of the IHMSA Flatsides made and offered for sale through IHMSA. I have IHMSA 42 with one of the only 50 Super 14 .357 Mag. barrels made at that time (1979).Years later, T/C began to offer the .357 14" as regular production. A few months into 1980, I also bought IHMSA 364, a 14" 7mm TC/U (100 were offered in this series). As David says, because of the potential for casting blemishes, Flatsides are relatively rare, yet it seems to me that they still don't seem to bring all that much of a premium when offered for sale.
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Post by zeus on Jan 5, 2014 8:24:33 GMT -5
I would love to find one of the old Howdah barrels some day but I'm sure most are in collections never shot unfortunately. I have an HHI flatside that I would like to have another to match. One of my favorites.
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Post by buckheart on Jan 5, 2014 19:16:45 GMT -5
Great bear hunting story! Is the TC gun that Foxtrapper has pictured a Jurras Howdah or just a short TC?
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Post by curmudgeon on Jan 12, 2014 1:37:57 GMT -5
Len and Bradshaw, Warren made flatsides for me on request. After people saw the flatsides, they T/C was overwhelmed with requests. Warren said no more flatsides. I hadn't heard that at the time so called to talk with Warren. Warren said I didn't mean you Lee, he said all the distributors had seen mine and wanted the same thing. He said it created real producton head aches. I told him it was too big a deal I would do something else. He said no just call and ask for me, I'll run them thru. My relationship with Warren and Ken was pretty close. After ATF in their infinite wisdom had T/C quit making their 45/410 and they went to a shotshell load with a choke, (44 Mag ) I loaded many thousands of their shotshell loads at Super Vel. Some of those early 44 Mag shotshell loads have a Super Vel headstamp. This was when I was having trouble getting enough 44 Mag cases for our own needs. Later I loaned the loading machine that I loaded those rounds on to T/C somebody made them 44 Mag brass. That was back in the day you had 3 cartridge case manufacturers in the US. Rem, Winc, and Fed. And Federal was a spin-off of a Go Co plant after WW2. The macine I loaned T/C was a modified STAR loading tool the premier multi - stage loading tool of the 30's and 40's, sold to every Police Dept in the WORLD that loaded their own pracrice 38 Spl. and 45 ACP ammo. Then came the Phelps...I degress. The Star loading machine I loaned to T/C was originally made to load 300 Weatherby ammo. another story for another time.
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Post by curmudgeon on Jan 12, 2014 2:10:40 GMT -5
Buckheart, Most of my Howdah's were a 12" length. a couple were 10" by special request, then I made about 15 Carbines of lengths of 16-18" FWIW If you think polishing showed upm some flaws, try surface grinding. Also when the no more flatslide rule went out and before Warren Okayed for me, 10 Howda's were made with a standard etching
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rawly
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 71
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Post by rawly on Jan 13, 2014 17:43:21 GMT -5
Yes a Contender beats a sharp stick! On one hand...I can never fault a guy for an idea to buy a new gun! On the other....I hope this is not an idea remedied by natural selection!
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Post by bigbore442001 on Jan 13, 2014 19:42:04 GMT -5
I've been toying with the idea for a while to build a woods gun out of a TC Contender. I know I know its a crazy idea but here is what I'm thinking... Contender, 44mag, 8" barrel with fixed sights dovetailed in place f&r, Pachmeir or Hogue combat grip, in a high ride holster. Here is why... The wife and I enjoy taking a stroll on the trails up in the New Hampshire mountains. An easy trail at high altitude is still a challenge to her. My mouse gun rides along at all times anyhow but I would like to have a more potent hand gun should we encounter a bear, moose, or mountain lion,etc. that is more interested in coming after us than steering clear of our presence. Not that we have even run across one yet while on the trail, but we are aware that they are in the area and others have seen bears on several occasions. Maybe I'm over thinking it. The Contender would be slimmer and more light weight(my thoughts)than any other style hand gun with as much punch. Although it is only a single shot I would have a full speed strip in my pocket as back up as well as my .380acp. My other woods guns in the past were .357, 22LR, and 44mag revolvers ... it really varied as to where I was hiking or hunting and what I might encounter. Has anyone built one like this before? Pictures.? What are your thoughts? Hello to a fellow New Englander. I read your post and cogitated on the issue since the White Mountains have been a second home to me since childhood. In all honesty, the biggest issue isn't black bears, which I believe are about one per square mile in northern New Hampshire, irate moose which can be more of a possibility but I haven't heard of too many issues or the potential for a Canadian wolf or passing mountain lion. The biggest issue would be your fellow human being. Don't get me wrong, I too think about bears. I have run into them such as a sow and cub near the fish hatchery in Whitefield but I used my brain and made a discreet egress. In the past I have carried Ruger SA and DA 44's in the region without any issue and thankfully never had to use them. Often times I had carried my Ruger SP 101 in 357 magnum. I never felt undergunned for any situation. Again main issue will be other people. Recall that French Canadian solo hiker that was murdered up there a few years back. If she had a nice side arm maybe the tables would have been turned. Gary Reeder has done some five shot conversions on the Ruger GP 100 to his 356 GNR wild cat and there was an option for a 41 magnum. I don't believe any 41's were ever made. In retrospect, one of his five shot 41 magnums on the GP 100 frame with a 4 or 5 inch barrel would be an idea backpackers gun. Heavy enough for most animal defense as well as the two legged varmints.
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Post by indigowolf on Jan 16, 2014 10:01:21 GMT -5
]Hello to a fellow New Englander. I read your post and cogitated on the issue since the White Mountains have been a second home to me since childhood. In all honesty, the biggest issue isn't black bears, which I believe are about one per square mile in northern New Hampshire, irate moose which can be more of a possibility but I haven't heard of too many issues or the potential for a Canadian wolf or passing mountain lion. The biggest issue would be your fellow human being. Hello and thank you bigbore442001 You are correct, in all honesty the wildlife is a far lesser part of the dangerous encounter equation in my opinion as well. In times past I have owned a dedicated "Woods Gun", often times separate from my carry gun. I am confident that my current CCW is capable of handling any two legged issues I might encounter. The Contender idea came to me as an added layer of insurance against larger dangers and it would function as a possible handgun for hunting. I have a possible acquisition in line for a 1911 style 45 auto, (friend clearing old inventory, ie parts gun)... This would make a good woods gun aside from not being able to hunt large game with it here in New Hampshire. I am particularly fond of the 1911 platform as I have worked on them, carried them, and hunted with them. Michigan allowed hunting deer with a 45 auto in the top 2/3's of the state.
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Len
.30 Stingray
Posts: 358
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Post by Len on Jan 16, 2014 17:04:42 GMT -5
Len and Bradshaw, Warren made flatsides for me on request. After people saw the flatsides, they T/C was overwhelmed with requests. Warren said no more flatsides. I hadn't heard that at the time so called to talk with Warren. Warren said I didn't mean you Lee, he said all the distributors had seen mine and wanted the same thing. He said it created real producton head aches. I told him it was too big a deal I would do something else. He said no just call and ask for me, I'll run them thru. My relationship with Warren and Ken was pretty close. After ATF in their infinite wisdom had T/C quit making their 45/410 and they went to a shotshell load with a choke, (44 Mag ) I loaded many thousands of their shotshell loads at Super Vel. Some of those early 44 Mag shotshell loads have a Super Vel headstamp. This was when I was having trouble getting enough 44 Mag cases for our own needs. Later I loaned the loading machine that I loaded those rounds on to T/C somebody made them 44 Mag brass. That was back in the day you had 3 cartridge case manufacturers in the US. Rem, Winc, and Fed. And Federal was a spin-off of a Go Co plant after WW2. The macine I loaned T/C was a modified STAR loading tool the premier multi - stage loading tool of the 30's and 40's, sold to every Police Dept in the WORLD that loaded their own pracrice 38 Spl. and 45 ACP ammo. Then came the Phelps...I degress. The Star loading machine I loaned to T/C was originally made to load 300 Weatherby ammo. another story for another time. Lee you and Bradshaw bring back memories of a better time things I have not thought about for years your Howdahs, Ruger shotguns converted to double rifles, etc. I had a chance once to handle one of your Howdahs I was called by the guns shop to come by and take a look unfortunately someone already committed to buying it. Was talking about this with an old friend of mine who also knew you Ed Matunas I know calibers and guns have come along way since then and guys like Linebaugh have made really big bore revolvers practical but I miss those days it was a much better world 30 some years ago.
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