carlos
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 9
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Post by carlos on Mar 25, 2013 8:53:30 GMT -5
We considered that possibliity, so we took it to a very well know west coast collector who had only purchased the highest condition original colts, and compared it to an early US. We, along with this man, found the differences. To the untrained eye, the overall look is great, but the details that make it authentic werre missing. They were as follows: The original frame markings were removed and recut. The were prominent before the work. The blue was to shiny and dark, not military. Front sight was the wrong shape, slanted to the rear. Barrel address on new made barrel was not accurate. Rear sight was the wrong shape, after welding and recutting. Did match a post 1900 gun though. Frame was thinned at the back and rolled off into the trigger guard screw, making the metal around the screw paper thin. The grain on the walnut grips was vertical instead of following the angle of the backstrap. But the case colors were great, best the collector ever saw matching the old originals. This man spends 80 grand on a gun without batting an eye and has been collecting high condition Colts for over 40 years. His opinion has the highest regard among Colt collectors. He and I advised my friend to contactt Al and have him make corrections. I don't know the content of the conversation, but the outcome was as I stated above. A business man shold be accountable for customer satisfaction. The hole in the story is what went on between them, so that part will never be truly known. I've reported as much as I saw and was told by my friend and the collector. You guys can make up your minds about this situation. Nobody is perfect.
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Post by jayhawker on Mar 25, 2013 9:28:30 GMT -5
Was the gun that was restored an "early US"? If not, you were comparing apples to oranges.
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Fowler
.401 Bobcat
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Post by Fowler on Mar 25, 2013 9:49:33 GMT -5
So you signed up on a new forum to bash a gunsmith who you didnt have any direct dealings with, who you dont know the full story of what was said, and who by all accounts did a very fine job except for some minute details?
Wow great way to introduce yourself over here...
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Post by kings6 on Mar 25, 2013 10:22:12 GMT -5
Guys, it is obvious we all hold Alan and his work in high regard here. Even Carlos shared that the things we all normally associate with alan, his metal and machine work, is to notch. Let's not lose sight of the fact that questions were asked of Carlos and he answered those questions in a polite and apparently concise manner to what he admits is the best of his knowledge. No one is perfect and we do not know when the work in question occurred. In other words was it one of Alan's first Colt restoration jobs or a recent job. Regardless, unless someone wants to call Alan and get his side of the story it is one persons story and there are always two sides but the gentlemans posts have been civil and I appreciate his willingness to help with facts as he sees or knows them.
That said, I will still be sending another project to Alan this week for machining and caliber conversion and am confident that I will get top notch service as well.
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jgt
.327 Meteor
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Post by jgt on Mar 25, 2013 11:04:18 GMT -5
There is another explaination. Imagine you are a gunsmith. Someone acquires an old Colt. It has had work done on it over the years by several blacksmiths and gunsmiths in an era that was quite different from today. Now it is put into your hands with specific instructions on what is wanted. You do what is wanted as per the instructions you have recieved from this person. After the work is done the customer now takes the gun to some "expert" and finds the gun has a bunch of short cummings. The customer blames the latest gunsmith. Had he taken the gun to the "expert" first to find the shortcommings, then taken it to Alan to be corrected I might think he had a case, but to give Alan blame for following the instructions he recieved smells of a case of not taking responsibility for one's own lack of the knowledge to properly instruct the gunsmith.
I remember when I met Alan. A table mate at a gun show ask me if I had seen the gunsmith on the row behind us. I said I hadn't. I went to talk to him and within a short time I decided he knew what he was doing and was the gunsmith I was looking for. I had previously had work done by Bowen and Clements. I sent a first generation Colt home with him and was amazed at his knowledge and workmanship when it returned. I quickly gave him several more projects and told him I was going to have all the work done I could afford because he was going to be a big name gunsmith and I would have to wait too long and would not be able to afford him when that happened. He didn't get to where he is today by doing shoddy work.
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axel
.30 Stingray
Posts: 146
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Post by axel on Mar 25, 2013 11:20:06 GMT -5
Alan has done minor work for me on three guns. Two action jobs, and a set of Micarta grips. I could not be happier with his work, and also fnd him to be a very pleasant and likeable human being. As soon as I can break loose and drive to Houston, he will be getting some more work, on at least two more of my guns, provided he is able to accept it considering his workload.
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Post by sixshot on Mar 25, 2013 11:20:33 GMT -5
Alan Harton is one of a handful of world class revolversmiths, he takes time to answer all the important questions before taking on a new project & his work is enjoyed all over the world, really a great guy & gunsmith.
Dick
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carlos
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 9
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Post by carlos on Mar 25, 2013 13:32:11 GMT -5
Jayhawker, it was in the same serial number range as the high dollar collectible. My old friend was most concerned with keeping the frame markings original, which they were. He has photos. They were ground off and new marks applied. This is what started the issue, and it snowballed from there. Enought has been said now, and if fans of Al are offended, we apologize. My "bottom of authenticity" remark may have been sharp, but it sums up what this old retired gent, on a fixed income, felt after spending 3 grand on the restoration. We thank you all for the input and hope that it has taught us all that craftsmen can do better or worse work as compared to the next guy or the original piece. That does not diminish the ability of the craftsman, only, perhaps, his perception of the objects in hand. These are art forms in metal and wood, and the finest art deserves and usually gets the finest compliments. To make that dedision, comparisons must be made with two pieces of art side by side. That one, was done over 100 years ago and the other last year makes no difference if the objective is to have them match. Sight alingnment my friends.
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Post by Doc Barranti on Mar 25, 2013 14:34:53 GMT -5
I have seen what appears to be the same story told on various internet forums before, and it was more than just a year ago. In fact, someone had attempted to build a website, using Alan's name, with the sole purpose of repeating this story. Same person?? This tale is several years old.
As Fowler said...second and third hand accounts told by someone who joined the forum just to post this tale?
I've seen plenty of before and after photos of Alan's restoration work to know what he is capable of doing with old worn out Colt's, not just Rugers. Collectors go to Alan for restorations because he does them right...
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Post by Boge Quinn on Mar 25, 2013 15:06:23 GMT -5
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Post by Boge Quinn on Mar 25, 2013 15:12:33 GMT -5
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Post by 2 Dogs on Mar 25, 2013 16:03:41 GMT -5
I'm personally glad he doesnt care for Hartons work. More for ME!
Does this guy really think he is going to sell us this pile of crap he is speading???
Nobody is buying your BS dude. Go shovel somewhere else.
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carlos
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 9
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Post by carlos on Mar 25, 2013 16:08:25 GMT -5
Nice work on the top strap. His forte" Seen the same on Peacemakersdepot web site, more photos though, black powder frame I think. Worth a look, just for comparison. That's Lanaras site. Fixed my friends gun BTW.
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Post by jayhawker on Mar 25, 2013 16:18:20 GMT -5
Alan is a superb welder and machinest. In restoring a badly worn Colt, it is necessary to add weld on many of the edges. He is a master at this. If it was necessary to add weld on frame edges, which is most likely, the markings would be removed when all was machined to original shape. As long as they were replaced with correct markings, what is the problem? That is the definition of "restore".
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Post by Doc Barranti on Mar 25, 2013 16:31:19 GMT -5
It is possible for you to plug for your friend without bashing Alan...but thanks, I'll be sticking with Alan...
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