Need help with a 41 mag Speer half jacket bullet

[hammerdown77]

So I've decided to wade into the wonderful world of the 410 bore, and for now I'm doing it solely with some jacketed bullets I obtained from a Ruger Forum member. I've got these Speer half jacketed SWCs, 220 gr., and I didn't have much luck with them today in my new-to-me Smith Model 57. I did have some Hornady 210 gr. JSP that seemed like they wanted to shoot well (2.5" or so at 25 yards with just one charge, 21.5 gr. H110), but there were only ten of those and they're all gone. The three loads I tried with these Speer bullets just didn't want to come together. I used H110, and tried 19, 19.5, and 20 grains. 19 looked like it might be trying to group. According to Hodgdon's online data, the starting load is 18 grains with that bullet, so I guess I'll try 18 and 18.5 next time.

Anyone had any luck with these things? I also have a box of the same style, only in 200 gr weight.

[jwp475]

Those were very good IME

[keyston44]

I've been shooting those bullets almost 30 years. My load is 19.5gr of H110 and magnum primer for my Ruger Blackhawk. A steady diet of those in my Smith 657 really loosened it up though.
In the late 80's a LGS was closing it's doors and had 21 boxes of them so I bought them all for $ 1.99 each. They also had about 10 boxes of Hornady 210gr JHP's for $2.99 each. I still have about 4 boxes left of each.

Key

[dougader]

Speer #14 lists that bullet with W296/H110 and 18.5 as a start load and 20.5 as max. with CCI 350 mag primers. Somewhere in there should get you what you're looking for.

IME, 296 usually gets more accurate toward the top end. Strange that 20.0 wasn't pulling together for you. Like Key said, I wouldn't shoot a steady diet of heavy loads in a 57/657 for fear of it shooting loose.

I wonder if 2400, AA#9, or N110 might get this Smith in the groove.

[hammerdown77]

I'll try below 19, 19, and 20 again I think. Could've just been me not having a good day with the N frame. I shot some good groups with my single actions yesterday, so who knows.

I've got AA#9 as well, so I'll make up some loads with it.

I'm seating these so that the case mouth is gently rolled over the top of the jacketed portion. I didn't put much crimp on them, honestly. For some reason I had this image in my mind of the jacket being pulled off as the bullet left the case. Is that crimp sufficient, or should I crimp like I normally would a lead bullet with a decent cannelure?

[groo]

Groo here
As with any magnum powder a good crimp will help..
Crimp over the role of the jacket and a small amount into the lead.

[bud]

As Groo said crimp just over the jacket into lead. I never had much luck with this bullet either using H110 or W296, especially in the Smiths and Redhawk. Better luck with BH and Bisley Ruger. However I just lucked onto HS7 which fixed everything. In a 10" TC barrel this bullet really shines with HS7 at right at 1500fps. 1200 +/- seems to be the magic # in the revolvers.

[stevemb]

Did somebody dig deep to find these bullets ? Thought they were long gone. I really liked the 225gr .44's. I'd try 2400. stevemb

[hammerdown77]

Yep, they came from someone's existing stash. They are not made anymore, far as I can tell.

[bradshaw]

Don't know about the Speer swaged 220 SWC in .41 Mag. Same design .44 240 SWC and 225 SWCHP are proven deer crimpers. Never loaded them red hot, as feel this is a less than max-pressure bullet.

Shooting partner, the late Ed Verge, carried a Model 57 8-3/8" for years in leather I made. The majority of deer Verge took with his .41 were slain with the old and wonderful Hornady 210 JHP, a design I've always trusted more than the XTP which replaced it.

The Speer swaged pure lead "half-jacket" was popular for years. I was told at Speer they tried to retire it in favor of JHP and JSP designed, but the audience wouldn't let go of it. I think it is a more load-sensitive----and forcing cone-sensitive----bullet the hard cast or conventional jacketed designs. No proven fact, just my impression using the design.

I've got some Speer .44 swaged 225 SWCHP over 18.5/2400 which print about 3" @ 100 yards. This load kills deer and anything in the barnyard, and doesn't beat up a Model 29.

HS-6 to HS-7 class of powder may produce consistency, without bending the bullet on its way down the barrel. Blue Dot might also produce. Stay under max within this burning range and you may find a sweet spot. And I do believe these bullets want a sweet spot. And I doubt said sweet spot will be found with your foot in the carburetor.
David Bradshaw

[bradshaw]

Hammerdown.... forgot to suggest a look at your forcing cone. Your S&W may have been made during manufacturers craze in the 1980's for curing all ills by deepening the forcing. Ironically, during this period of anti-analytical thought, there appeared this strange new phenomenon----the crooked forcing cone.

Unless your forcing cone is relatively short, concentric and smooth, the Speer swaged half-jacket design may not agree to arrive in the bore unmolested.

So, look at the cone, and also make up some loads in the HS-6 to 2400 burning range with, in all cases, below maximum charges.

Please let us know if this helps, and let us know if it doesn't.
David Bradshaw

[hammerdown77]

I'll try to get a good pic of the forcing cone.

HS-6, and AA9 are next on my list of powders to try. And backing down to the starting load of H110.

With my luck, I'll probably find a really good load.....just as I run out of these bullets.....

[bradshaw]

Hammerdown.... load two or three at a time----not five. Chronograph and target simultaneous, if possible.
David Bradshaw