princeout
.375 Atomic
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,001
|
Post by princeout on Mar 14, 2012 8:05:41 GMT -5
In reading Mr. Taffin's and Lee's articles/posts on Supermags, the question of a .45 caliber SuperMag pops up. It looks like Elgin Gates had a .45 caliber version in his lineup but I haven't found any references to it ever being built.
If a Ruger Maximum were used to create a .45 SuperMag, the case capacity at a 1.60" length would fall somewhere between the .454 Casull at 1.38" and the .460 S&W at 1.80". Seems like .460 brass could be utilized to make the shorter SuperMag brass.
Anyone ever hear of one of these being made up? Tim
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on Mar 14, 2012 8:13:29 GMT -5
There was one and it was a .458 Maximum if I can recall correctly. I am trying to dig up an article that Ross Seyfried wrote about it (I think).
|
|
princeout
.375 Atomic
Enter your message here...
Posts: 2,001
|
Post by princeout on Mar 14, 2012 8:22:05 GMT -5
Whitworth, I had forgotten about that article. I've got it somewhere - I'll take a look. Thanks, Tim
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on Mar 14, 2012 8:28:00 GMT -5
You're welcome, Tim.
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Mar 14, 2012 8:36:24 GMT -5
I have the PDF if anyone needs it. Ross built the 1.60" 458 Maximum around 1997. Basically a longer version of my 458 Devastator. And I'm not suggesting he copied us....he just thought his up a few years after I built the 1.40" version. Hell, I'm flattered that someone like Ross would have the same idea. What I liked about the piece is Ross compared the 1.40" 458 to the Casull. Even with a thicker case head, it held 4 grains more ball powder. No reason to ditch the 454, but it gave some improvement in velocity with 300 grain bullets and up (40 - 50 fps if I remember correctly). -Lee www.singleactions.com
|
|
Cannon
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 85
|
Post by Cannon on Mar 14, 2012 8:45:13 GMT -5
My fuzzy recollection is that Dan Wesson was bringing the Super Mag cartridges out one at a time, got to the 445 in the late 80's but ran into financial trouble about the time the 455 would have been introduced. I was under the impression that a very few 455's were made eventually but that could be wishful thinking. I do know I have seen properly headstamed brass on the collectors' market, but I don't know the source.
Incidentally, if anyone has a copy of the 6th edition of Cartridges of the World, it has an article written by Elgin on the entire Super Mag series. It also includes articles by JD Jones and Art Alphin on some of their proprietary cartridges.
Edited to add: I just found this in the 14th Edition of the Gun Digest Book of Modern Gun Values:
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Mar 14, 2012 8:50:17 GMT -5
They never brought a 455 to market. Elgin's original design was on 45-70 brass with the rims turned back a bit. Now a 45 SuperMag was prototyped in the early 2000's (3 or 4 years before the 460 S&W, which is longer). I have some of the test brass: It measures 1.610" and is basically long 45 Win Mag with a rim. -Lee www.singleactions.com
|
|
|
Post by kings6 on Mar 14, 2012 9:34:24 GMT -5
Hamilton talks in his book about a 458 Maximum he has done and I assume will still do. He said the 475 and 500max are too brutal but the 458 Max apparently is more within the realms of shootability. It is a belted case similar to Bob Bakers 500W. He shows pictures of the round in the cartridge section.
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Mar 14, 2012 9:44:27 GMT -5
It's ironic. When I designed my 458 Devastator back in '93, many thought the belt was goofy. I guess Ross, Hamilton, and the Bakers are goofy too. -Lee www.singleactions.com
|
|
|
Post by bigbores on Mar 14, 2012 10:31:50 GMT -5
Seems there might just be a little to be had case capacity wise when a belt is used in a revolver. I thought the Bakers were crazy for using belted case over simply going with the 500JRH but after having both chambered in the short cylinder of a 83 the extra room given by the shorter case (500WE) is helpful, Ive become a real fan. Then again it might just be me and weird combo's; Ive really enjoyed playing with the 50AE in the 83, seems goofy suits me.
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Mar 14, 2012 10:41:59 GMT -5
The belt offers no advantage. We headspace off it, but that's only because 458 Win Mag isn't rimmed. I just chose to leave it because it'd be another step in case prep to remove it. Remember, I used belted magnum brass because I had a couple of buckets of rifle cases with split necks and shoulders (not to mention a few from wildcatting gone wrong). Functionality aside, it also looks cool....at least I think it does. -Lee www.singleactions.com
|
|
|
Post by AxeHandle on Mar 14, 2012 10:50:47 GMT -5
The at the end vs down a bit is way over my head.. With the WE the FA 83 has got to have clearance at the ratchet end of the cylinder for the WE belt to enter the chamber. Means to me that the belt could just as easily been a small rim like on the JRH.. I kind of like the engineering on the rest of my FAs so I'm happy believing that FA did the best thing given the 83s limitations.
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Mar 14, 2012 10:56:10 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by whitworth on Mar 14, 2012 11:00:23 GMT -5
The at the end vs down a bit is way over my head.. With the WE the FA 83 has got to have clearance at the ratchet end of the cylinder for the WE belt to enter the chamber. Means to me that the belt could just as easily been a small rim like on the JRH.. I kind of like the engineering on the rest of my FAs so I'm happy believing that FA did the best thing given the 83s limitations. The JRH was designed for use in the FA 83 and predates the .500 WE. I shot the first .500 JRH FA83 that was ever built and it is a match made in heaven! ;D Fits rather nicely.
|
|
|
Post by Lee Martin on Mar 14, 2012 11:06:47 GMT -5
Hell, I'd choose the 500 JRH based on brass and dies alone. You can use 500 S&W on the latter, right? And brass can be done on cut down 500 Mags (which Starline offers in bulk). -Lee www.singleactions.com
|
|