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Post by cvarcher on Dec 14, 2011 10:13:11 GMT -5
Im using brinnel hardness of 11 SWC slugs (.453)with Colt loads around 900fps thru a .451bore with cylinder throats at .4525" and a recut cone .I find after 50-75rounds the gun needs to be cleaned and theres so much pieces of lead and black soot fowling its a job to scrub it all out.Im now trying that yellow cloth thats suppose to take lead out from Birchwood casey and it does but it goes on and on and on...I end up using that lewis lead remover brass screen. Im using Univ Clays, HS-6, W-231 and 2400 as the powders. So --is this typical for 45 colt shooting? OR should I step up the hardness to 15 or more?
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Post by dale53 on Dec 14, 2011 16:10:56 GMT -5
I don't have any Colts on the place (although I do have a USFA Rodeo and a Cimmaron).
My most shot .45 Colts are both Rugers (a Bisley Vaquero and a Bisley Convertible). However, these comments also apply to my USFA Rodeo). I shoot those kinds of slugs at about the same hardness (WW's+2% tin) without issue. I often don't clean until I have 300-500 rounds down range. I get no visible leading and definitely no build up. Finally, when the gun gets so cruddy from carbon and bullet lube that I am on the verge of being embarrassed, do I clean them. Of course, I keep them wiped off, but no cleaning insides until they REALLY need it. No fall off in accuracy (from a Ransom Rest, etc) either.
You dimensions sound near perfect. The other thing you might try is a better bullet lube. I have fired tens of thousands of rounds with NRA 50/50 bullet lube without issue and my current standard for the past several years is Lars White Label Carnauba Red. It shoots with equal accuracy as the NRA formula, has a higher melting point for hot summer use (and works fine in cold weather), and is most reasonably priced.
My most shot load is a clone of the RCBS 45-270-SAA bullet ahead of 8.5 grs of Unique.
I had a friend who was casting bullets similar to mine but was having leading problems. I had him try some of my loads, BINGO, no leading. He switched to Carnauba Red and his leading problems IMMEDIATELY went away.
Try another bullet lube...
Dale53
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Post by taffin on Dec 14, 2011 16:31:23 GMT -5
Im using brinnel hardness of 11 SWC slugs (.453)with Colt loads around 900fps thru a .451bore with cylinder throats at .4525" and a recut cone .I find after 50-75rounds the gun needs to be cleaned and theres so much pieces of lead and black soot fowling its a job to scrub it all out.Im now trying that yellow cloth thats suppose to take lead out from Birchwood casey and it does but it goes on and on and on...I end up using that lewis lead remover brass screen. Im using Univ Clays, HS-6, W-231 and 2400 as the powders. So --is this typical for 45 colt shooting? OR should I step up the hardness to 15 or more? HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY ARE 11BNH? DO YOU HAVE A TESTER OR ARE YOU GUESSING? WHAT LUBE ARE YOU USING? SOFT OR HARD? SOOT TELLS ME YOU ARE NOT GETTING COMPLETE IGNITON. DO YOU HAVE A CHRONOGRApH OR ARE YOU GUESSING AT THE MV? ARE YOU USING A GOOD HEAVY CRIMP? |
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Post by cvarcher on Dec 14, 2011 18:54:50 GMT -5
Ok, I have tested most of the loads over an F1 chrony.11bhn is what the company states (eg. Mt Baldy).I dont know what lube he used.My crimps over time have changed and have gotten too tight as the cases started buckling!! So I cleaned up the die and reset it at a lighter crimp. I think my problem may be i'm running them a little too fast.Maybe 850 should be my max speed with 255grain slugs. Then The groups will drop lower on target and maybe I wont get as much lead and dirt in my gun.
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Post by taffin on Dec 14, 2011 21:57:27 GMT -5
MOST COMMERCIAL CAST BULLETS USE A LUBE SWHICH IS TOO HARD SO THEY DON'T GET MESSY IN PACKAGING. TRY COLT FOR AN ELLIASON SIGHT. SLOWING YOUR BULLETS DOWN WILL MAKE THEM SHOOT HIGHER NOT LOWER. IF YOU SIGHT IS THE PROPER HEIGHT AS YOU SAY CHECK HOW YOU ARE HOLDING THE GUN. LET SOMEONE ELSE SHOOT IT.
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Post by taffin on Dec 14, 2011 21:59:50 GMT -5
HOW DID YOU MEASURE YOUR THROATS? CALIPERS WONT DO IT. MOST 2ND GENS ARE .454" OR MORE. HOW DO YOU KNO WTHE BORE IS .451"?
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Post by taffin on Dec 14, 2011 22:02:38 GMT -5
IF CASES BUCKLE WHEN YOU CRIMP IT I S NOT BECAUSE YOU ARE CRIMPING TOO MUCH. YOUR CRIMPING/BULLET SEATER IS NOT SET RIGHT.
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Post by sagebrushburns on Dec 14, 2011 23:35:34 GMT -5
At 900 fps a relatively soft lead bullet should not create leading problems. I use straight wheel weights (don't know the BHN) at that velocity in my Colts and Rugers with no leading to speak of. I have found that a blat base instead of bevel base bullet helps and soft lube (Javalina) instead of hard also helps.
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Post by taffin on Dec 14, 2011 23:41:35 GMT -5
MY WHEELWEIGHT BULLETS ARE 9. I AM CONTINUALLY SURPRIZED HOW BULLETS THAT ARE TOO HARD, HAVE BEVEL BASES AND HARD LUBE STILL SHOOT GREAT IN MOST SIXGUNS.
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Post by cvarcher on Dec 15, 2011 13:36:09 GMT -5
Oh boy!! Well how I know about my throats are that Mr. Ed Janus of Peacemaker Specialist set this 2nd Gen gun up himself by boring out the 357mag cylinder.HE did the timing ,cone cut trigger job and put on the 4 3/4" NF barrel. I double checked the bore and chamber slugging the gun and using both calipers and micrometer just to make sure they were right. I got off the phone with him yesterday and he says the opposite ,that I should be lowering the loads and velocity , which will drop the POI down.So it seems we have a disagreement or misundertanding. However all I have to do is try the same bullets with higher and lower loads to find out myself. You have brought out an interesting point about what may cause buckling cases and that it may not be the hard crimping I was doing. But seating SWC or jacketed bullets the edge of the brass is either tucked right into the groove and up against the beginning of the forward ring or about in the middle of the cannelure(is that the right term ) of jacketed bullets. I use a redding profile crimp as a last seperate step and my Lyman bullet seater is the step before this and seems set right for proper COL.I didnt know just when it buckled the cases as they were very subtle so I only noticed this later.My slugs were bought from Mt baldy and a guy in Colorado so I dont know what lube they used but speeds are never over 1000fps and more in the 900 area.I wish I could get some help in my shooting this wonderful gun (im on Long Island NY) but did make a nice head shot at a grey squirrel at 20 yds with my colt NF 22 wich has a 4 5/8" barrel and a red squirrel at 15 yds the following week so Im not totally a bad shooter. I try and maintain the sight picture (top of front blade even with the height of the rear leaf and centered for a 6 oclock hold.
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Post by taffin on Dec 15, 2011 17:28:34 GMT -5
THE PROPER COL DOESN'T EXIST. YOU GO BY WHERE THE CRIMPING GROOVE IS AND THE LENGTH OF YOUR CYLINDER. SEAT THE BULLET PROPERLY W/O CRIMPING. THEN BACK OFF THE STEM AND CRIMP. RE-SET THE SEATING STEM TO THE TOP OF THE BULLET. CHECK THE NEXT ROUND AND YOU MAY NEED TO TURN THE STEM IN ABOUT 1/8-1/4 TURN.
IF THE NF HAS ALREADY BEEN ALTERED TO THE TUNE OF A REPLACEMENT FRONT SIGHT AND CYLINDER WHAT IN THE WORLD IS YOUR CONCERN ABOUT ALTERATIONS LESSENING VALUE??
MY SON-IN-LAW IS FROM LONG ISLAND. 20 YEARS AGO MY DAUGHTED SAID I WANT TO GO HOME AND THEY MOVED TO IDAHO
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Post by cvarcher on Dec 15, 2011 17:35:16 GMT -5
Thats the best thing ive heard yet!!! Im glad for them that they are truly home. There is nothing here on the Island as thngs are getting worse by the day!! Tell your son in law to take it from me he is vewry lucky to be led to heaven. No, thats the 22 new frontier that has the new front sight! too many "new" around here LOL!!!
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Post by 2 Dogs on Dec 15, 2011 18:27:37 GMT -5
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Post by cvarcher on Dec 15, 2011 20:54:34 GMT -5
2 dogs--that was great!!! In fact it seems to describe exactly my situation!! I wonder if I should first just try shooting 50 shots of Hornady Jacketed XTP .I just happened to order some anyway for my 45 colt lever rifles. Maybe that will smooth some imperfections out .As for the leading ,ok I got it now but according to the article shouldnt get much leading at all anyway!!
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pjv
.240 Incinerator
Posts: 22
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Post by pjv on Dec 18, 2011 7:23:09 GMT -5
Been shooting nothing but lead for over twenty five years.I have no problem at all getting the lead out of my barrel.
What I do is run a wet patch of your favorite bore cleaner through the barrel with the correct size brass cleaning jag.
Next will be a cut off piece of the copper chore boy scrubbing pad you buy at Walmart or whatnot.Make sure it is all copper,place on jag and go from one end of the barrel to the other back and forth several times.Follow that once again with another cotton patch with some solvent on it and your done.
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