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Post by 98redline on Dec 5, 2011 10:48:08 GMT -5
So I have been thinking about this and can't quite get my head around the reason....
Coming from the 1911 world we have lightened/skeletonized hammers to reduce the hammer mass and shorten the lock time thus improving accuracy. In rifles titanium firing pins are used for the same purpose.
Why is it that in the single action/revolver world that a similar thing does not exist? Is it pretty well known that a SA revolver has a fairly long lock time and I hear it mentioned from time to time that it can effect the accuracy.
Why are we still using the original "heavy" hammers then exacerbate the problem by going to lighter hammer springs?
It seems to me that an ultralight/skeletonized hammer with a stock weight or heavier main spring and a good trigger job to keep the trigger pull in the right range would do nothing but improve accuracy
What am I missing? Why is this not as common as the similar approach on 1911 style guns?
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chaz
.30 Stingray
Posts: 150
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Post by chaz on Dec 5, 2011 10:54:55 GMT -5
Being of both worlds as well I have heard of that process but have also read many times that the lighter hammer used on the 1911(yes mine is as well) actually does not significantly improve the lock time.
Some writers who have checked the difference could not show any change. And have declared it more of a cosmetic change. Sorry I dont have references currently I will take a look for them.
That being said the SA hammers might improve with a skeleton hammer but seems like it would ruin the ascetics.
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Post by AxeHandle on Dec 5, 2011 11:25:42 GMT -5
Can't argue that after a couple of decades of almost exclusive 1911 shooting the single action revolver hammer fall seemed v-e-r-y s-l-o-w. Note that the fast falling hammer of the 1911, followed by the recoil of the fired cartridge, does a lot to mask what is going on. Use the slow falling hammer of your single action revolver to improve one of the commonly overlooked aspects of accurate shooting, your follow through. It will make you a better shooter with other things..
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Post by taffin on Dec 5, 2011 11:29:59 GMT -5
So I have been thinking about this and can't quite get my head around the reason.... Coming from the 1911 world we have lightened/skeletonized hammers to reduce the hammer mass and shorten the lock time thus improving accuracy. In rifles titanium firing pins are used for the same purpose. Why is it that in the single action/revolver world that a similar thing does not exist? Is it pretty well known that a SA revolver has a fairly long lock time and I hear it mentioned from time to time that it can effect the accuracy. Why are we still using the original "heavy" hammers then exacerbate the problem by going to lighter hammer springs? It seems to me that an ultralight/skeletonized hammer with a stock weight or heavier main spring and a good trigger job to keep the trigger pull in the right range would do nothing but improve accuracy What am I missing? Why is this not as common as the similar approach on 1911 style guns? WHAT YOU ARE MISSING IS KNOWLEDGE OF SIXGUN HISTORY. KING GUN SIGHT AND OTHERS WERE DOING SKELETONIZED HAMMERS AND SHORT ACTIONS ON COLT SAAs BEFORE WWII. THE BOOK "HOME GUNSMITHING THE COLT SINGLE ACTION" FROM THE 1950s SHOWS HOW TO DO BOTH. SINCE A GOOD COLT WILL ALREADY SHOOT ONE-HOLE GROUPS THE ADDED WORK AND EXPENSE WERE DEEMED NOT TO BE WORTH IT. |
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Post by jayhawker on Dec 5, 2011 11:53:12 GMT -5
What John said. Also no longer any interest in formal NRA style target shooting using SA revolvers. The King GS SAs were meant for target shooting. They are high $ collectors items today.
Jayhawker Bob
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Post by Ken O'Neill on Dec 5, 2011 13:02:35 GMT -5
As an aside, the FA Mdl. 252 / 83 .22's do have skeletonized hammers:  |
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Post by 98redline on Dec 5, 2011 13:05:48 GMT -5
WHAT YOU ARE MISSING IS KNOWLEDGE OF SIXGUN HISTORY No argument there. SINCE A GOOD COLT WILL ALREADY SHOOT ONE-HOLE GROUPS THE ADDED WORK AND EXPENSE WERE DEEMED NOT TO BE WORTH IT. I certainly understand that point, however why is the concept of lock time applied to rifles and the 1911 platform but in single actions, with the slowest lock time of the bunch, it is considered not worth it? |
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akray
.30 Stingray
"Alaska is what the Wild West was"
Posts: 388
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Post by akray on Dec 5, 2011 13:11:27 GMT -5
If the lock time of a single action revolver is slow, how is Bob Munden able to put 2 shots together so fast that they sound like one shot?
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Post by 98redline on Dec 5, 2011 15:02:43 GMT -5
If the lock time of a single action revolver is slow, how is Bob Munden able to put 2 shots together so fast that they sound like one shot? I never said it was too slow, just looking for some definitive reasoning as to why it is prevalent on some platforms but not single actions. |
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chaz
.30 Stingray
Posts: 150
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Post by chaz on Dec 5, 2011 18:20:32 GMT -5
That's just it, it probably is not a problem in the others, just a way to sell more stuff.
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Post by subsonic on Dec 5, 2011 21:04:51 GMT -5
The reason why not has more to do with the users than the use. Most handguns, especially SAs, are just not used for things where accuracy is the primary goal. If most are looking for accuracy, they look for XP100s and T/Cs etc. Just like why minivans don't get 6 speed manual transmissions. But that definitely is not to say that you can't race a minivan or get great accuracy with your SA. www.gusmahon.org/html/Mini.htmcastboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=131755No 6 speed. No lightweight hammer. |
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Post by tek4260 on Dec 5, 2011 21:12:20 GMT -5
98redline, it should be easy enough to test. Order a heavy spring and drill an extra hammer. Just make sure you don't get into the plunger bore.
I have 26# springs in most of mine and I "feel" they help.
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Post by 98redline on Dec 5, 2011 22:12:59 GMT -5
Right now my accuracy with my SBH is certainly good enough for me (all shots in a paper plate at 100 yards), but the lock time was just one of those things that peaked my interest.
I probably could drill one of my extra hammers however not having a drill press or a bridgeport and nothing but stainless parts on hand would make that a true exercise in off square holes and dulled bits. I am pretty sure I can stave off my curiosity until I get one of the machines above......or have my local machinist mill out some material from one of the hammers.
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Post by tek4260 on Dec 5, 2011 22:22:33 GMT -5
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dmize
.401 Bobcat
Posts: 2,825
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Post by dmize on Dec 5, 2011 22:25:25 GMT -5
Maybe look at the trigger fall distance of a Ruger SA versus a 1911??
Doesnt matter what the weight is when there is a 1/2 inch difference in distance??
The mods Mr. Taffin mentioned had the hammer fall from basically half cock position.
In my competition smokepole shooting,what Axe said is absolutely true,In Missouri ALL records are held by flintlocks NOT percussion,the SECRET is in follow through.
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