Freedom Arms v Supermag

[gjn]

I read an article by John Taffin wherein he states the Freedom Arms Model 83 in 357 Mag. can be loaded to far higher performance than any of the 357 Maximum/Supermag revolvers. www.sixguns.com/range/fa353.htm I'm curious if those who may know feel the same can be said for the Freedom Arms model 83's in 41 & 44 mag. v. the Supermags in 414 and 445?

[shorty500]

as once said by JT himself- you will run out of powder capacity before you reach the pressures that the FA will contain in say the .44Magnum. with that said i as well as many others have developed loads for the FA .44 that equal and sometimes exceed the Supermags

[kings6]

Interesting question! I don't doubt you could run a 5 shot FA83 beyond what a 6 shot supermag would handle BUT I am not sure what the outcome would be if you ran the FA against a long cylinder 5 shot supermag. Ironically there is a FA83 in 41 mag in the safe rightnext to a Harton 5 shot long cylinder 414 Supermag. Now all I need is some time and the guts to see how hard I can push them both. ;D

[Tom Richardson]

If you just want to be destructive get a bowling ball at a yard sale.
Save a bunch of money and your hands will still work right.

[kings6]

Nah, I'm teasing Mr. Tom. I have no desire to see if I can make a gun buck so hard I can't hang on to it. I'm too old and broken up to play that young man's game of gun chicken. Besides, the last thing I'd want to do is have to replace either of those guns since they are both kind of different. I'd send them to Zeus first before I wrecked them. He has his name on both of them anyway!

But, it is an interesting idea to toss back and forth when you look at both being five shots and one being the finest single action to come out of a "factory" while the other is carefully put together by Mr. Harton and it locks up about as tight at the FA.

[aciera]

The 357 maximum, with its' rifle primer was made so heavier bullets could be used.
I don't know the length of the FA cylinder, but with a heavy bullet, the 357 max at 48k cup(?) In a Maximum frame, I wonder what pressure the FA would have to run to stay even.
And as with the 45 Colt doing more in a Ruger, I wonder where the safe limit is........
Anyone know what pressures are needed in the FA in 357 mag to reach. The Max speeds?

[AxeHandle]

You pays your money and makes your choice! I've shot some evil stuff in my time but never been tempted to shoot more than a good 357 mag load in my 353. Same goes for my FA 44s, 454s, 475s, and 50s. Guess it is nice to know that there is a significant safety margin... Of course I'm pretty young compared to most of you old coots. Got a lot of miles left in my hands and wrists so long as my eyes hold out...

[aciera]

Thinking about this:
The 454 makes the most foot pounds(pound feet?) with lighter bullets, bigger boiler room and all.
The outside wall of the chamber in a Ruger 357 Max is about .120 and between cylinders is maybe .150, there is more headspace than the standard 357.
But again the FA is a 357 mag and it is apples to oranges comparing it to a heavy bulleted 357 max.
What was the original question again?
Sorry for the rant, talk amongst your selves......

But that 353 shoots heavies faster, so maybe it is just some thing to get more info on, pressures and all.

[bigbores]

Nov 2, 2010 14:31:48 GMT -5 gjn said:

I read an article by John Taffin wherein he states the Freedom Arms Model 83 in 357 Mag. can be loaded to far higher performance than any of the 357 Maximum/Supermag revolvers. www.sixguns.com/range/fa353.htm I'm curious if those who may know feel the same can be said for the Freedom Arms model 83's in 41 & 44 mag. v. the Supermags in 414 and 445?

Well the 83 seems to hold 65,000+PSI loads in 454 just as easy as it does in the .357 and I suspect it would hold 65,000+PSI loads in the .500WE without any problems other than a very sore hand, so yes the Freedom arms can and will best the stock 414, 445sm using the 41mag and 44mag respectfully.

Moving up to a custom 5 shot maximums,...well John Linebaugh's 5 shot in 445 claims 2,000FPS using a 250GR Cast with only a 6" barrel, no way your going to do that with any 6" model 83 in 44Mag.

[Ken O'Neill]

Nov 2, 2010 18:33:42 GMT -5 Tom Richardson said:

If you just want to be destructive get a bowling ball at a yard sale.
Save a bunch of money and your hands will still work right.

I'm with Tom. I never get the " I wanna see what it will REALLY do" crowd. If I want a bigger gun, I get one...without wearing out or destroying the smaller one.

[Lee Martin]

I can duplicate 414 SuperMag with my 5-shot 1.40" 41 Magnum. I've never been able to do the same with my 5-hole 41 Magnum. In other words, it took another 0.11" in case length plus running pressure to 50,000+ PSI to get there. Now if I built a 5-shot 414, I could easily outpace the 1.40" 41.

You have to remember all of these magnums work best with slow ball powder (ie, W296 & H110). Both operate at 100% load density or higher. You may be able safely compress another grain or two in a 5-shot, but that's it.

The bigger question is why do it? The FA 353 loads you're talking about ruin primer pockets after 1 or 2 reloads. And for what, a few extra hundred fps? If I'm asking a 357 Magnum to do that, I'm might as well move up to a 357 B&D, a 375 SuperMag, a 41 Magnum, a 414 SuperMag, etc, etc.

Just my two cents....

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

[aciera]

Lee;
In the 41 1.400, how heavy a bullet could you use or did you use a different twist?

[Lee Martin]

I've shot up to 335 grains in it and I'm using 1:16 twist.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com

[aciera]

Many thanks Lee.

Damn, 335! I thought 270s were nice and heavy. I am humbled.

Small rifle primers?

I guess it is a 5 shot 41x1.400. And the Ruger Maximum goes to another project.

Got to see if it will fit in a mid frame, but the cylinder may be too short.....

Many thanks Mr Lee.

[Lee Martin]

Believe it or not, I'm still using CCI 350s in my heavy 5-shot 41 loads.

-Lee
www.singleactions.com