2011 white paper on wolf attacks

[squawberryman]

I wonder how it could be updated for the years following, over on the LRH forum

www.longrangehunting.com/threads/pro-wolf-folks-try-to-suppress-this.357392/

[bigbrowndog]

The mentioned Delventhal case in 97, was featured in the TV series “I was prey” or “I survived” not long ago.

Trapr

[bula]

I can say with near 99% accuracy that wolves have never killed anyone sitting behind a desk, spouting Disney-Bull. I saw Never Cry Wolves when 1st out. I enjoyed the scenery in the movie, but obvious to this ole redneck that wolves diet shifts higher in % to small game when the birthing, pups are tying the pack down to just near the den. Soon as pups are well mobile, back to big bites. 

[kevshell]

Any of these introductions or removals are usually slanted and rarely take into consideration other actions-reactions. The kudzu is an invasive plant that takes over and kills all manner of plants. It grows 1' per day. Millions have been spent to control a plant. Hunting licenses are the most cost effective method for balance. In Montana the mountain lions now kill prey purely so the wolves will leave them alone. It's like mafia payoffs or welfare depending on how you want to look at it. This supports a higher wolf count. Most of what the public sees is paid for by an organization pushing an agenda (think being lectured by people about ruining the environment while being shuttled around in their private jet). Yellowstone ungulate populations is all people need to see if they are willing to open their eyes. The elk herd is 25% of what it was prior to the wolf introduction. Not to mention people don't realize the size difference from the original wolf and wolves introduced (I won't say reintroduced since that's misleading - these are not the original wolves). If I can find pictures of 2 killed in Montana this year I'll post it.

The first year I bought a wolf tag I bought it in a fly shop since they sell licenses. I asked for a wolf tag. He said do you want to donate to the wolf mitigation fund (donating to paying ranchers when they lose livestock). I said no this wolf tag is my wolf mitigation contribution. He stared at me. I stared back. We didn't talk much after that.

[bula]

Kevshell, please explain difference in size.. I saw a wolf cross the road in front of me in far north Ontario on a bowhunt for bear in late 80's. Friend was driving at the time and I snapped a pic. Later, realized I'd caught wolf mid lane. Only like a foot of lane, to centerline to nose. and a foot to berm from end of tail. WOW ! Here our coyotes regularly weigh 50lbs, adult well fed ones. Friends nuisance trap them, have caught 60 lb coyotes. People do tend to think wolves are just a bit bigger than coyotes, but it ain't even close.

[hunter01]

Wolves kill people? Dont Bears, lions, coyotes, dogs, and all other sorts of domestic animals kill people? Wolves have a purpose in a healthy ecosystem or GOD would not have created them. They need to be kept in proper proportion to everything else in their area. Many of us get these feelings that we are WILD men born decades or centuries too late. We want to feel that wild atmosphere.....and long as it has AC, TV, and apparently is also wolf free.
It used to be called "natural selection". Only the smartest, strongest, and fastest survived. What made them smart, strong, and fast? ADVERSITY! If you are in a wolf infested environment and have no way of protecting yourself, you arent smart to have put yourself in that position. If you set on the couch for 11 1/2 months a year and then venture into the wild unprepared, AS MANY OF US DO, then you arent smart, strong, or fast!
We dont have wolves here but we do have other problem animals if not kept in check. When coyotes are eating my calves, i wage war against the coyotes for a time. When coons are eating my feed, i wage war against them for a time. When hogs are damaging an actual crop, ill shoot more than i need to eat or bring others in to do it. I wouldnt treat wolves, lions, bears, or black panthers any differently.
If you HAVE a wolf PROBLEM, fix it! Just dont air it all over the internet when you do. If you heard about a wolf problem on the internet, dont lose sleep over it. The only thing the internet ever "fixed" was a society led by high moral standards. Maybe some sheep could start identifying as wolves and the "problem" will fix itself.

[bigbrowndog]

I recall seeing a very nice taxidermy display of full mounted 300# black bear. Next to it was a pair of wolves again full mounts, do not recall wolf species, but wolves were labeled as 125ish and 150ish pounds. They made the black bear look small, height comparable to Great Dane but bulkier, just a bit bigger than a coyote is not even close.
A wolf hunt is still on my list of retirement hunts, and the wife wants one too, so it’s likely to happen.
Trapr

[bula]

We are being out voted and out lobbied to fix the wolf problem. Where there is a wolf problem. But there is a wolf problem if you live there. The natural balance, healthy ecosystem, is a myth, nature is not benevolent, kind. It just is. 

[kevshell]

Apr 15, 2024 10:18:10 GMT -5 bula said:

Kevshell, please explain difference in size.. I saw a wolf cross the road in front of me in far north Ontario on a bowhunt for bear in late 80's. Friend was driving at the time and I snapped a pic. Later, realized I'd caught wolf mid lane. Only like a foot of lane, to centerline to nose. and a foot to berm from end of tail. WOW ! Here our coyotes regularly weigh 50lbs, adult well fed ones. Friends nuisance trap them, have caught 60 lb coyotes. People do tend to think wolves are just a bit bigger than coyotes, but it ain't even close.

This guy is probably 6'+. These wolves are big. I've seen two different wolves as full body mounts. The one is about the size of a very large coyote. The other is the size of a very large German Shepherd. These two look to be considerably larger than the ones I saw mounted. As previously stated some of them are well over 125 lb and pushing 150. The original wolves were supposedly around 80 lb. That means the wolves that were introduced are 50 to almost 100% larger than the original. There are some rather wonky quota numbers. The closer you get to Yellowstone Park the fewer that are allowed to be taken. People who don't have to contend with this stuff are the ones making all the decisions just like those who voted in Colorado to introduce the wolves are not the same people who live out in the country who will have to contend with them. Could you imagine the uproar that would be had if the people in the country made all the decisions for the people who live in the urban areas? They would lose their minds.

Combine this wolf introduction problem with the fact that the bear populations are under reported. It all leads to a predator - prey imbalance. And that's yet another problem for man to solve which will only result in another problem to solve.

[bula]

Thank you.

[cubrock]

We have backpacked in the Bob Marshall Wilderness the last two summers. Both trips, we saw wolf tracks along the White River, on the western side of the Continental Divide. The track sizes are amazingly large - you have to see them to believe them.

[bula]

In the early '80's spent 4 days backpacking on the east side of divide, the Bob. To just south of the china wall. Saw no sign of wolf, i grew up trapping. We did see mulies, elk and mtn goat and grizzley.

[hunter01]

Apr 15, 2024 10:54:56 GMT -5 bula said:

We are being out voted and out lobbied to fix the wolf problem. Where there is a wolf problem. But there is a wolf problem if you live there. The natural balance, healthy ecosystem, is a myth, nature is not benevolent, kind. It just is. 

MEN fix problems. There are plenty of ways to fix it. If its truly a PROBLEM, and you wont use other means, move to an area without wolves and problem solved. Not willing to use other means OR move? Then it isn't a legitimate problem. To use your rational, Before the internet, wolves werent a problem, they just were.
You truly dont believe a healthy and balanced ecosystem exists?

[kevshell]

Just a few prints.

[bula]

Wolves were always a problem, long before the internet. Hence they were driven to near gone. Healthy and balanced, brings joy, but species have always gone away, per climate and habitat changes. it is never pretty. The "MEN" leads me to think I need to re-figure out how to block folks .