Russian hardball in the 1860???

[CraigC]

Oh yes we did! Pretty sure we're going to hell for this one. Wanted to try some cheap Russian steel case hardball out of the Kirst conversion. It works just fine, extracts a little sticky.





Quick 10 shots at 15yds offhand. Definitely needs a taller front sight. May cut it back to 5".

[drycreek]

Pretty good work for a 160 year old revolver design and a 110 year old cartridge, that were never supposed to meet.

[bobwright]

Out of curiosity, is there enough headspace for a thin (.45 Colt) rim to be used? My shortened .45 Colt rounds is what I'm getting at.

Bob Wright

[CraigC]

Dec 12, 2023 21:49:23 GMT -5 bobwright said:

Out of curiosity, is there enough headspace for a thin (.45 Colt) rim to be used? My shortened .45 Colt rounds is what I'm getting at.

Bob Wright

I did check that and it does fit. I'll probably handload for it using the CS brass.

[sharps4590]

Craig, first of all, I am impressed with the group and, secondly, I am ignorant of the "Kirst conversion." Is that a production revolver or done by a private gunsmith? I have to admit I never would have thought to try 45 ACP in any percussion to cartridge conversion!!

I have an Uberti, 1872 Open Top in 44 Colt and with 4.5 grs. of W-231 under Lee's 429-200 bullet it will group that well at 25 yards. That is after a SIGNIFICANT amount of work on the hammer nose notch and front sight.

[bobwright]

The reason I asked is I was wondering if these short .45s would work in that revolver. I made these rounds out of pold .45 Colt cases that had neck splits. They work fine in my .45 Rugers with the ACP cyinder in place. As to the why of such cases and ACP cylinder, just because. And, its sort of "old timey" in use.




Bob Wright

[CraigC]

Dec 13, 2023 7:25:08 GMT -5 sharps4590 said:

Craig, first of all, I am impressed with the group and, secondly, I am ignorant of the "Kirst conversion." Is that a production revolver or done by a private gunsmith? I have to admit I never would have thought to try 45 ACP in any percussion to cartridge conversion!!

I have an Uberti, 1872 Open Top in 44 Colt and with 4.5 grs. of W-231 under Lee's 429-200 bullet it will group that well at 25 yards. That is after a SIGNIFICANT amount of work on the hammer nose notch and front sight.

It started life as an 1860 long flute percussion gun.

I don't think anybody thought they'd be putting the 21,000psi .45ACP into an open top Colt percussion gun but apparently it works.

Read about Kirst's conversions here:

kirstkonverter.com/

You can read about this sixgun here, I'll bump it with more details:

singleactions.proboards.com/thread/38390/uberti-45acp-conversion-goons-works

[CraigC]

Dec 13, 2023 9:21:56 GMT -5 bobwright said:

The reason I asked is I was wondering if these short .45s would work in that revolver. I made these rounds out of pold .45 Colt cases that had neck splits. They work fine in my .45 Rugers with the ACP cyinder in place. As to the why of such cases and ACP cylinder, just because. And, its sort of "old timey" in use.

When I start handloading for it, I'll use the Special brass. I think I have 1000rds of it? I've never handloaded .45ACP because my guns all throw the brass into the weeds and I ain't goin' in after it. Once I put about 500rds of hardball through it, I'll probably start handloading with cast or maybe swaged bullets or both.

I still don't know why the Special doesn't work in that goofy Ruger.

[45dragoon]

Cool picture with the steel cases piled up !! ( nice shooting too !!)
Before you cut the barrel, that extra bit of tube out there tames the 45acp +p's pretty good!! Lol !!

Mike

[45dragoon]

For those "unaware" of Kirst Konversions, Walt has been in business for quite some time. He makes a very nice product (I am not affiliated with Kirst). He called me last year wanting to know if I'd like one of 5 45acp cylinders to check out !! Of course I said yes, so I set up an Uberti 1860 Army as the test bed for this new offering.
I was first to the range with my "purpose built" '60 and sent a box down range. I told Walt it was an excellent combo and next trip would include some +p's. With my "new found info" about Walt's cylinders ( I've been using them for 13 yrs in Army's as well as a pair of Dragoons) I sent a box of Hornady Critical Defense +p's down range. They've turned out to be the most accurate factory ammo so far.
Since then the round count is about 1500 with about 1/3 of them being +p's ( I'm testing the "platform" not the cylinder). The Uberti open-top is holding up perfectly. These revolvers have a well known problem with the arbor being short. If corrected and setup with close tolerances it's a most excellent and robust revolver!! I've been shooting Brian Pearce's 45C+p's in the Dragoons!! I'm planning to scoot up to the upper 20K's in them ( there again, platform testing).

Mike

[sharps4590]

Wow! Amazing!

I am much to mired in tradition to go down that path but I do find it interesting. From your results, 45dragoon and Craig and probably others, Colt's old design is stronger than most thought. Obviously the cylinder is probably stronger but still, the arbor, wedge and frame are taking up what seems to me to be quite a bit more pressure than percussion or BP cartridges. Amazing.

[pete]

Nice 1860, Craig. One of those is on the Someday list, after I get the rest of my projects done. I would love to convert one of those to 480 Achilles, I'm thinking it would be fun with black powder loads!

[drycreek]

At the risk of highjacking this thread, I just have to say one more time, Bob Wright, you have excellent taste in revolvers !