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Post by revolvercranker on Oct 6, 2023 22:03:43 GMT -5
Dick I'm positive that if your slide was for a 38 Super meaning had the 38 Super breech face that it would function flawlessly. I once put a 30 Luger barrel in a 45 acp Glock and it would fire it and extract it, but not eject it. I know there is enough difference betwee a 10mm case rim and a 38 Super to cause some of the problems you are experiencing.
Also, for the money, and also for the smaller calibers on a 1911 frame, Mec Gar is THE magazine. I run Mec Gar 9mm, 10mm,and 30 Luger magazine in all my 19ll's with zero function problems. For 45acp magazines I run Chip McCormink mags and would trust my life on them.
That's my mileage but yours may vary.
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Post by sixshot on Oct 7, 2023 0:45:02 GMT -5
Pretty sure we've got it nailed down to the extractor, I ordered a Wilson 38 Super extractor today so we will see in a few days. The gun is shooting great.....as a single shot but I was kind of counting on it going bang, bang, bang! Instead of bang..............bang..............bang!
Dick
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Post by rjm52 on Oct 7, 2023 5:06:41 GMT -5
Revolvercranker...several years ago I bought a Kimber Stainless Target II in .38 Super. Decided that I liked it so much I would buy one in 10mm. After I bought the 10mm I found out from posters over on the 1911 Forum that Kimber cuts the breechface of the 9mm, Super and 10mm all the same. I took the barrel out of the 10mm, dropped it in the Super and it ran like a top. Put the Super barrel in the 10mm slide and zero issues.
Colt and many others do not do it that way.
I also have a PARA-USA Elite Longslide Hunter, Kimber Stainless Target 10mm and SIG Nightmare Carry in .357 SIG all with Super barrels with no extraction/ejection issues.
There are also many posters on the 1911 forums who have put Super barrels in their Deltas with no issues...
Also if you check out the 1911 parts list, the Super and 10mm both use the same extractor and ejector...
Bob
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Post by revolvercranker on Oct 7, 2023 17:11:54 GMT -5
Revolvercranker...several years ago I bought a Kimber Stainless Target II in .38 Super. Decided that I liked it so much I would buy one in 10mm. After I bought the 10mm I found out from posters over on the 1911 Forum that Kimber cuts the breechface of the 9mm, Super and 10mm all the same. I took the barrel out of the 10mm, dropped it in the Super and it ran like a top. Put the Super barrel in the 10mm slide and zero issues. Colt and many others do not do it that way. I also have a PARA-USA Elite Longslide Hunter, Kimber Stainless Target 10mm and SIG Nightmare Carry in .357 SIG all with Super barrels with no extraction/ejection issues. There are also many posters on the 1911 forums who have put Super barrels in their Deltas with no issues... Also if you check out the 1911 parts list, the Super and 10mm both use the same extractor and ejector... Bob According to what you say that was true at one time. I'm wondering when you said you purchased the gun several years ago, how many is that. Read this from the Brian Enos forum:https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/178579-convert-10mm-kimber-target-to-9mm/ I don't want to get into a pissing contest, but the correct way was to have the correct breach face, extractor, and ejector. Yes you can get away with it to certain degree. Best reliability is the correct way.
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Post by bigbrowndog on Oct 7, 2023 18:18:25 GMT -5
The issue with larger than correct breech faces and swapping extractors is when they are in spec, but at the outside of tolerances and the tolerance stacking winds up causing reliability issues. Dicks issue is a perfect example, when the gun was fired with the slower slide speed it worked, but when velocity and slide speed increased to proper levels for the cartridge his issue showed up. What can work, and what does work is not always what should be done. That well known major manufacturers undertake such behavior is enough for me to not buy their product. A customer having issues with a new gun and doesn’t realize the tolerance stacking taking place is going to be a frustrated user.
Trapr
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Post by revolvercranker on Oct 7, 2023 19:21:48 GMT -5
I don't how many of you know that the 1911 is a control feed firearm much like say a 98 Mauser. As the slide goes forward and starts to strip a cartridge from the magazine the rim the cartridge feeds up under the extractor again much like a 98 Mauser. A bad thing to do with a 1911 is drop a cartridge in the chamber and let the slige run home. This isn't good at all for extractor. Okay what I'm saying is the extractor has control of the cartridge from the beginning and if they cartridge rim isn't where it's suppose to be in the extractors grip things aren't good. One thing that can cause this is that the breach face is the wrong size for the intended cartridge.
Now I'm going to dance around what I'm going to say next. Kimber isn't all it's made out to be as a firearm or company. Please don't ask me how I know this. It's not a bad firearm, but there are better ones.
Dick here is something you can do with your 10mm barrel. You can load 40 S&W and fire it in that barrel because it's controlled feed and the extractor has ahold of the cartrige at all times. The top pistol match people do this for practice rounds because it's much cheaper as the 40 uses a lot less powder then the 10mm. I've done this in a 1911 long slide 10mm and also in a Glock long slide 10mm. I was amazed at how well it worked.
You fellows want to see something sweet and that's a P08 Luger barreled in 38 Super. The magazine easily accomendates the longer Super cartridge mainly because it has such a steep angle. A german Luger builder friend of mine in Germany put me on to that.
If one can get the extractor to work on a 10mm pistol with a 38 Super barrel go for it, at least it's not a dangerous thing to do.
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Post by rjm52 on Oct 8, 2023 19:34:12 GMT -5
My Kimber .38 Super was a 2002. The 10mm was a 2013. The 10mm Longslide 2021. All run 100% with both 10mm and .38 Super.
Just bought a Kimber Camp Guard 10mm...Super barrel dropped right in and runs 100%.
The Stainless Target II .38 Super is fitted with several barrels and will run the following: .38 Super 9mm 9x23 Winchester 9mm Largo .40 S&W 10mm .357 SIG So far only two failures to extract with 9mm...
Have SIG Nightmare Carry in .357 Sig. It now has 10mm and .38 Super barrels. Zero innues.
PARA-USA Elite Longslide Hunter 10mm. Has a Fusion .38 Super barrel...again no issues.
Have many .38 Super and 9mm 1911s with extra barrels. So far the ONLY one that didn't run was a Tisas Stingray 9mm...it needed just a little fitting of the extractor to clear the slightlylarger rim.
Have three of the Kimber lightweight Government 1911 9mms. All have been fitted with Super barrels...all run flawlessly. When I dig the .40 or 10mm barrel out that is fitted to the Stainless Target II I'm going to see if the lightweight guns are cut for 10mm...
All I can say is I've got a 43 year history of doing caliber swaps with 1911s with almost no isses...
Bob
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Post by rjm52 on Oct 8, 2023 19:46:24 GMT -5
...and that original 10mm Stainless Target II...it was fitted with Super and 9mm barrels. Ran 100% and now resides with a friend in Idaho as I didn't need two.
And one day I took both guns to the range and put the barrels fitted to the 10mm in the Super and the barrels in the Super in the 10mm...ran a magazine of ammo through all the combinations and had zero malfunctions...
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Post by revolvercranker on Oct 8, 2023 21:13:14 GMT -5
...and that original 10mm Stainless Target II...it was fitted with Super and 9mm barrels. Ran 100% and now resides with a friend in Idaho as I didn't need two. And one day I took both guns to the range and put the barrels fitted to the 10mm in the Super and the barrels in the Super in the 10mm...ran a magazine of ammo through all the combinations and had zero malfunctions... I got you beat by a few more years. Ran all that stuff you mentioned and in addition built a 1911 in 30 Luger and yet one more the 38-45, which by the way is a fantastic cartridge and for me amazinly accurate. All my pistols are built on the correct breach face and all zero issues. I did have a wee bit of trouble with the 1911, if you call it that, with the 30 Luger because I built it on the full size 1911 not the Commander or Combat Commader. The issue was even with hot loads I had to get the proper recoil spring and after I did it runs very reliable. I never had a malfunction in all those years that would have cost me my life. Sounds like you did. Remember what Bill Jordan said "No Second Place Winner". I'm glad you're happy with your Kimbers.
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Post by AxeHandle on Oct 9, 2023 11:16:45 GMT -5
Beware 38 Super Comp brass... It is 38 Super brass without the semi rim of the Super. My issue was not in gun functioning but with reloading. Dang Super Comp brass would come out of the shell holder under the size die in my Dillon SDB. Makes for long unproductive evenings at the loading bench. The Super Comp needs a different shell plate. My fix was putting the Super Comp brass in the bad brass bucket.
Load wise my experience is Bullseye tainted. 3.0 grains of WST under a 147 grain cast truncated cone bullet recoils like a 22 and is 50 yard X ring accurate. I have two. One is a 1957 Colt with a Kart barrel. One is a Caspian slide and frame with a Barsto barrel. Both full up custom from top to bottom. Both builds from the 90s. One by Dan Norwood, the other by KC Crawford. Paper punching guns built by a couple of the the best paper punching gun builders out there.
Did have the original Joe Chambers build me a Ninja 38 Super in the mid 1980s on a Series 70 Colt. Kart barrel and Plaxco comp. Most significant thing I remember about it is the 38 Super Blue Dot data in the 1st edition Lyman manual is BAD, BAD, BAD. Never saw primers ironed out like that!
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Post by revolvercranker on Oct 9, 2023 11:55:21 GMT -5
Beware 38 Super Comp brass... It is 38 Super brass without the semi rim of the Super. My issue was not in gun functioning but with reloading. Dang Super Comp brass would come out of the shell holder under the size die in my Dillon SDB. Makes for long unproductive evenings at the loading bench. The Super Comp needs a different shell plate. My fix was putting the Super Comp brass in the bad brass bucket. Load wise my experience is Bullseye tainted. 3.0 grains of WST under a 147 grain cast truncated cone bullet recoils like a 22 and is 50 yard X ring accurate. I have two. One is a 1957 Colt with a Kart barrel. One is a Caspian slide and frame with a Barsto barrel. Both full up custom from top to bottom. Both builds from the 90s. One by Dan Norwood, the other by KC Crawford. Paper punching guns built by a couple of the the best paper punching gun builders out there. Did have the original Joe Chambers build me a Ninja 38 Super in the mid 1980s on a Series 70 Colt. Kart barrel and Plaxco comp. Most significant thing I remember about it is the 38 Super Blue Dot data in the 1st edition Lyman manual is BAD, BAD, BAD. Never saw primers ironed out that! Amen on the 38 Super brass having a smaller rim. I was going to mention that, but wanted to see how many knew it. Does that mean if one puts a Super barrel in 10mm pistol and does all that hard work to tune it to the semi rimmed Super brass that he may have to tuned it all over again? I built a 38 Super on a Caspian 9mm frame (narrower feed ramp for 9mm) with a Kart match barrel and full tune up. One of my favoriate 1911's. I have just about every brand of Super brass and found most of them are up to snuff!! I though Aguila would be the thiness, but it was okay. Some of the best brass out for just about any caliber is S&B. I believe the pistol match comp shooters came up with getting 38 Super Comp brass made with the smaller rim because the case then head spaces on the case mouth which gives a more consistant head spacing then the rim of the semi rimmed brass trying to head space on the very small recess in the end of the barrel hood. Thus more accuracy. Alliant as we know changed their load data on Blue Dot.
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Post by sixshot on Oct 9, 2023 12:15:02 GMT -5
I'm using a 223 shell plate to load my super comp brass, no problem with the loading just with the extracting!! Should have the Wilson extractor in the next couple of days & we will see if I've solved the problem. I haven't tried 38 Super brass with the rim, just Super comp. One things for sure, tomorrow is deer season opener & I won't be messing with a semi auto!
Dick
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Post by revolvercranker on Oct 9, 2023 13:16:01 GMT -5
I'm using a 223 shell plate to load my super comp brass, no problem with the loading just with the extracting!! Should have the Wilson extractor in the next couple of days & we will see if I've solved the problem. I haven't tried 38 Super brass with the rim, just Super comp. One things for sure, tomorrow is deer season opener & I won't be messing with a semi auto! Dick Aw hell Dick, give those deer a chance! LOL I believe I'm using the 9mm shellholder. I notice 38 Super is a tad harder to size then 9mm because the Super is a straight wall cartridge plus it has more bearing surface. Not talking a lot harder, just noticeable. Good luck on your hunting.
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Post by AxeHandle on Oct 9, 2023 14:08:26 GMT -5
Dick, If you don't have any straight 38 Super brass I'd recommend you try some. Could I send you a few? The semi rim of the Super might be just what your gun needs. Much like 32 ACP, if I don't place a straight edge down the side of the case I can't even see the rim. With a well built gun you don't give up any accuracy with the semi rimmed Super case. Allen Fulford worked with Jim Clark to build a bullseye 38 Super in the early 90s. It would get it! 10 shot 1 inch groups at 50 yards all day. Allen shot Nosler 115s.
FWIW the original 38 Super head spaced on the rim and did not have a reputation for accuracy.. A custom barrel that head spaced on the case mouth fixed them. I hear that even stock Colt 38 Supers now headspace on the case mouth.
What bullseye shooters discovered was that you could make the 9mm shoot as good as the 38 Super but the 9mm had to be loaded to recoil level of the 45 wadcutter loads. This defeated the purpose of using something other than the 45 ACP for the centerfire match. This was NOT the case with the 38 Super. It shoots good with light, paper punching loads.
Just had an epiphany... If you have a 38 Super Comp barrel you may not have the option to try 38 Super brass.
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Post by revolvercranker on Oct 9, 2023 16:16:25 GMT -5
Dick, If you don't have any straight 38 Super brass I'd recommend you try some. Could I send you a few? The semi rim of the Super might be just what your gun needs. Much like 32 ACP, if I don't place a straight edge down the side of the case I can't even see the rim. With a well built gun you don't give up any accuracy with the semi rimmed Super case. Allen Fulford worked with Jim Clark to build a bullseye 38 Super in the early 90s. It would get it! 10 shot 1 inch groups at 50 yards all day. Allen shot Nosler 115s. FWIW the original 38 Super head spaced on the rim and did not have a reputation for accuracy.. A custom barrel that head spaced on the case mouth fixed them. I hear that even stock Colt 38 Supers now headspace on the case mouth. What bullseye shooters discovered was that you could make the 9mm shoot as good as the 38 Super but the 9mm had to be loaded to recoil level of the 45 wadcutter loads. This defeated the purpose of using something other than the 45 ACP for the centerfire match. This was NOT the case with the 38 Super. It shoots good with light, paper punching loads. Just had an epiphany... If you have a 38 Super Comp barrel you may not have the option to try 38 Super brass. Dick's cheap barrel may be chambered to headspace the semi rimmed 38 Super case and if so it's firing the rimless casebecause the extractor is holding it against the breach face. Remember me mentioning the 1911 extractor has control of the cartridge and case? Trying sem rimmed cases may shoot entirely different. Hey Axehandle have your ever shot hollowbase wadcutters or full wadcutters from your 38 Super? True target pistol then.
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