Understanding the Adjustable J frame sight

[ezekiel38]

I purchased a Smith 60-15 3" adjustable sighted model. Obtained and pinned in a new proper height front sight. It had a great FO front sight except the gun shot 10-12" high at 15 yds. Front sight too short.

New proper front sight in place. Gun was now shooting low at 15 to 20 yds. Rear sight elevation screw was bottomed out. As I began to make upward turns on the elevation screw the sight blade did not come up. Upon examining the rear sight, the elevation screw was not in contact with the frame of the weapon.

Simply put; what the heck is going on? Does anyone have a schematic of how this sight works, for the J frame adjustable is not the same sight as the K,L,N.

I'm at a loss as how to fix this issue. I just want a sight that I can zero.

FWIW the gun likes jacketed heavier bullets, and cannot abide lead bullets.

Thanks For Your Help. I need to understand the construction of this sight so I can fix it.

[jeffh]

Any of the adjustable rear revolver sights I've seen with a tang like that, worked such that the tang was a leaf-SPRING, which exerted upward force on the rear sight at all times. The elevation adjustment screw passed through a clearanced hole in the tang and threaded into the top strap and ALLOWED the sight to rise when backed out, but FORCED the rear sight down when threaded in. MAYBE there were some which worked backwards, but I've not seen one personally.

No idea what kind of "good idea" someone has come up with these days. Seems no one can leave things alone that work these days - some "good idea fairy" comes along and the first thing that pops into their head has validation just because it popped into THEIR head. There are reasons we don't do certain things certain ways; 1) it's just stupid, 2) it was done that way before a legitimately better was came along, 3) someone really thought it out and put some legitimate engineering into it. Drives me up a wall how some think that just because they thought of it, it's a marvelous idea - "gee, look how clever I am!" To danged lazy and arrogant to do even the most minimal of research before reinventing a worse wheel.

The only time changing what works is warranted is when someone finds a cheaper way to do it BETTER, or at least as good, and that doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does.

"FWIW the gun likes jacketed heavier bullets, and cannot abide lead bullets.

This would be a no-go for me. With today's technology, there is no reason everything cannot be nearly perfectly aligned and correctly dimensioned such that cast can be used without leading. I've sold/traded a bunch of revolvers off for this very reason. They could have been "fixed" or I could have found that ONE load which worked, but I'd rather have one that works with whatever I put through it - at least what I WANT to put through it, which is bullets cast, lubed sized (or not) with as little fuss, equipment and materials as possible. That MAY be too high a standard, and not everyone will have that same requirement, so I'm not saying the gun is a loser, but if you want to shoot cast, you should be able to shoot cast without having to fix the gun or get too involved making special bullets.

[Gunny268]

The sights base (that is mounted by the front screw) is not spring steel. When the rear screw is screwed down it bends the metal which will not "spring up" if the screw is backed out. There is no "simple fix" that I am aware of.

[jeffh]

Jun 7, 2023 11:44:16 GMT -5 Gunny268 said:

The sights base (that is mounted by the front screw) is not spring steel. When the rear screw is screwed down it bends the metal which will not "spring up" if the screw is backed out. There is no "simple fix" that I am aware of.

Well, that kind of sucks.  Is this a new idea?  I don't remember them being like that in the past.

[bradshaw]

Ages since I removed a J frame adjustable sight. It is not the same design as the standard S&W rear sight. To scale the sight down to the J frame, the wonderful micro-adjustment of the standard sight was eliminated. The J frame elevation screw has 4-clicks per rev. Whereas, the K, L, and N frames employ 6-clicks per rev. Windage screw on all frames use 6-clicks per rev. My Model 34 .22 Long Rifle with 4-inch barrel and .100” ramp front----with narrow rear notch----has the accuracy to CLINK the IHMSA turkey @ 150 meters (164 yds). A proper S&W thrives on good sights.

Unlike Bill Ruger’s 79-cent copy of the fine old Micro, which has beaucoup elevation, S&W elevation is very limited. In the old days, at least, S&W did an amazing job at regulating revolver sights.

To this shooter, the S&W sight belongs on a Smith & Wesson. Never liked it on any other gun, staring with installation on the Colt 1911. The J frame sight has less adjustment than the standard sight and is generally regulated for one bullet weight. All too often, when the J frame sight is set in a Peacemaker top strap, the sight is cranked up like it’s trying to step on the Moon, unsightly and exposed to damage.
David Bradshaw

[mhblaw]

I’m not sure that a 3” barreled revolver needs an adjustable rear sight in the first place…

[ezekiel38]

Appreciate all the input, looks like I will be doing some experimentation to make sure this Smith has a zero that won't be jumping from "place to place". First adjustable sighted J frame I've ever owned.

[jeffh]

Jun 7, 2023 18:31:01 GMT -5 mhblaw said:

I’m not sure that a 3” barreled revolver needs an adjustable rear sight in the first place…

Have to give a nod to this wisdom, BUT...

I've had adjustable-sighted 3" revolvers and even made one from a fixed-sighted revolver once.  My latest escapade was to make an adjustable-sighted 3" revolver a FIXED-sight revolver.

A nice 3" fixed-sighted 22 revolver would be nice, but it would only be nice if it hit somewhere close to where you were pointing it and with your favored 22 ammo.

[ezekiel38]

Apparently mhblaw doesn't understand the concept of a "Smith and Wesson Kit Gun". But that's ok. A 3" adjustable sighted J frame 357 at 25 ozs is a handy piece of "kit" in the bush.

I find the weight comfortable and the versatility reassuring.

DL Sports come to mind if I can't get this adjustable to work properly.

[bradshaw]

Tom.... can’t dig into the M-34 J frame sight right now; will try to later. As you know, the standard S&W rear sight elevation screw threads into a “nut.” The elevation nut has a flange which slides into a horizontal slot behind the top strap. There isn’t room for this arrangement on the J frame. Thus, my suspicion the J frame elevation screw threads into the frame. It’s been decades since I had one apart, so I’ll check it out later.
David Bradshaw

[bigbrowndog]

Jun 8, 2023 10:59:41 GMT -5 ezekiel38 said:

Apparently mhblaw doesn't understand the concept of a "Smith and Wesson Kit Gun". But that's ok. A 3" adjustable sighted J frame 357 at 25 ozs is a handy piece of "kit" in the bush.

I find the weight comfortable and the versatility reassuring.

DL Sports come to mind if I can't get this adjustable to work properly.

My 3” 629, 2.5” 19, SW 43, and others have all been a pleasure to shoot with adjustable sights, I’m currently having to “regulate” sights on a few “fixed” sight 3” guns. Once they’re done they are nice but getting them there can be a pain, and you are locked in to that load combination.

if I get a chance I’ll look at my 43 when I get home, but it is an old J frame so things may have changed.

Trapr

[longoval]

Jun 7, 2023 11:44:16 GMT -5 Gunny268 said:

The sights base (that is mounted by the front screw) is not spring steel. When the rear screw is screwed down it bends the metal which will not "spring up" if the screw is backed out. There is no "simple fix" that I am aware of.

If I'm understanding you correctly, couldn't you just take the sight off, put a slight bend in it then use the rear screw to remove just enough of the bend to sight it in?

[jeffh]

Jun 8, 2023 12:40:04 GMT -5 bradshaw said:

....my suspicion the J frame elevation screw threads into the frame. It’s been decades since I had one apart, so I’ll check it out later.
David Bradshaw

This is exactly how the one I had installed on my 3" SP101 worked.

That's been close to fifteen years ago and I don't know just how old the sight was, so I can't say they are still made that way.

[Gunny268]

longoval...that's about how it would work, I guess.

[longoval]

Seems like an odd design but an easy enough fix.