Powders for short barreled revolvers

[Fowler]

I have pondered if one would be wise to switch powders for a shorter barreled revolver.

I have noticed in the past that short barreled guns with 2-4" barrels and heavy loads of H110 and similar powders can really make for some big muzzle blasts and fireballs, my assumption is that it is wasted powder and energy basically. So would a guy looking for a high performance load for short barreled gun be better with a faster powder such as W231, Bullseye, or a middle speed powder such as HS6, Power Pistol, or Longshot?

Thoughts?

[hounddogman]

Heavy 38 special +P+ and 357 loads using rimrock 170 gr. Keith bullet. 15 grains H110 with bullets deep seated in mag brass. This is the max load in the lyman manual. 2.5" barrel average 1188 fps. 4 5/8" barrel average 1346 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1711 fps. The following are not book loads but safe in my guns, work up your own blah blah 😀. 8.2 grains longshot with bullets full length in mag brass. 2 1/2" barrel 1140 fps. 4 5/8" barrel 1274 fps. 6.5 grains longshot in 38 brass. 2 1/4" barrel 1010 fps. 2 1/2" barrel 971 fps. 4 " barrel 1058 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1377 fps. 6 grains unique in 38 spl. brass. 2 1/4" barrel 1000 fps. 2 1/2" barrel 979 fps. 4 " barrel 1030 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1241 fps. Couple of thoughts. The 2 1/4" 38 special sp101 is consistently faster than the 2 1/2" 357 gp100 and only shoots to point of aim with heavy bullets hence most this data. The 2 loads in 38 brass are very easy to shoot in K frame and larger guns . The 8.2 grains of longshot is pretty potent from the 2 1/2" barrel but downright pleasant compared to H110. Less noise, muzzle blast and recoil and only 40 fps less.

[hounddogman]

Short barrels are kind of new to me and other than the traditional bullseye with wadcutter 38 loads, I haven't used fast powder in them . I needed heavy bullets to hit point of aim and I don't like fast powder with them. I guess 4 inch barrels could be considered short for 44 mag or 45 colt but I never loaded them any different than the longer barrels. 

[bula]

Agree with the logic above. Been reaching for Longshot more often, and lately trying HS-6 more too. Barrels have been getting shorter. The M69's and the Alaskan  got that thought started here awhile back. Newer mid burner rate stuff with flash retardents make sense. Like PowerPistol, or AutoComp, CFE-Pistol. What other powders have flash retardents ?

[pleadthe2nd]

AA #9 is flash suppressed, I think alot of Accurate powders are, as well as the Shooters World brands, there is a thread that AA #7 is in stock, and would be a good medium burn powder to try in short barreled guns.

[magnumwheelman]

FYI... accurate 9 doesn't burn completely in a short barrel, or with lighter bullets... I've actually had powder fall out of the end of the barrel...

don't get me wrong, I use it, but only for heavier bullets, with a decent crimp...

I've done a lot of experimenting on shorter barrels... actually for my 45 Colt snubbie... a case full of Trailboss is one of my favorite loads

[gnappi]

I only load short barreled revolvers with faster powders. Nowadays expensive powder goes a longer way when 7000 grains is divided by less rather than more.

PS, my avatar's flash is airbrushed in :-)

[pleadthe2nd]

Feb 16, 2023 11:25:49 GMT -5 magnumwheelman said:

FYI... accurate 9 doesn't burn completely in a short barrel, or with lighter bullets... I've actually had powder fall out of the end of the barrel...

don't get me wrong, I use it, but only for heavier bullets, with a decent crimp...

I've done a lot of experimenting on shorter barrels... actually for my 45 Colt snubbie... a case full of Trailboss is one of my favorite loads

Agreed, I was simply stating #9 is flash suppressed, that's why I recommended trying #7 in short barreled guns

[magnumwheelman]

... I actually use a lot of #7... & #5 as well

[pleadthe2nd]

AA powders have become a favorite of mine,because of the flash suppresion, and low light conditions of most hunting times,also Magnumwheelmans suggestion of Trailboss is spot on, it's good to see some of these powders becoming available again

[bigbrowndog]

Fowler, I try and take into consideration bore diameter as well as barrel length. Since to my thinking it affects burn rate having more or less space to burn in, consequently if I’m shooting less than .40/10mm bullet diameter or shorter than 4” of barrel I give faster burning powders a good consideration. If both parameters are being met <.40 and <4”, then definitely I use faster powders, Titegroup, Unique, #2, etc.
My 3.75” 45 colt runs H110, but it’s 265gr bullets, and 1200+ FPS, My 3” 629 runs Unique a 240gr. and 980FPS, 3” SW13 runs 140’s at 1200+ with Unique as does 3” 38Spec with 125gr. All of my autoloaders for competition run Titegroup, but none are loaded for maximum performance, just enough to make power factor consistently across the US. My hunting autoloaders run #9, for heavier bullets and top velocity.

Trapr

[handloadingnotes]

I second Accurate #7 as a good choice for a medium burn lower flash powder. It’s not no flash, but it’s less than some faster powders.

In an all steel 45ACP 1911 I chased the most muzzle flash I could get using light 155grain slugs and extra powder. I had more pyrotechnics with 8.4 grains of Power Pistol (1111fps) than 12 grains of Accurate #7 (1088fps). I didn’t try working up further with the #7. But I’d expect it give more speed with less flash.

[handloadingnotes]

Feb 15, 2023 17:34:06 GMT -5 hounddogman said:

Heavy 38 special +P+ and 357 loads using rimrock 170 gr. Keith bullet. 15 grains H110 with bullets deep seated in mag brass. This is the max load in the lyman manual. 2.5" barrel average 1188 fps. 4 5/8" barrel average 1346 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1711 fps. The following are not book loads but safe in my guns, work up your own blah blah 😀. 8.2 grains longshot with bullets full length in mag brass. 2 1/2" barrel 1140 fps. 4 5/8" barrel 1274 fps. 6.5 grains longshot in 38 brass. 2 1/4" barrel 1010 fps. 2 1/2" barrel 971 fps. 4 " barrel 1058 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1377 fps. 6 grains unique in 38 spl. brass. 2 1/4" barrel 1000 fps. 2 1/2" barrel 979 fps. 4 " barrel 1030 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1241 fps. Couple of thoughts. The 2 1/4" 38 special sp101 is consistently faster than the 2 1/2" 357 gp100 and only shoots to point of aim with heavy bullets hence most this data. The 2 loads in 38 brass are very easy to shoot in K frame and larger guns . The 8.2 grains of longshot is pretty potent from the 2 1/2" barrel but downright pleasant compared to H110. Less noise, muzzle blast and recoil and only 40 fps less.

Thanks for that excellent info! What’s the difference in muzzle blast like in the 2.5” gunbetween that 1188fps load with 15gr H110 and the 1140fps load with 8.2gr Longshot. I know there’s no exact answer and every shooter tolerates blast differently. Just curious on your take. How much more “work” is it to shoot the ~50fps faster load?

[2 Dogs]

Feb 15, 2023 17:34:06 GMT -5 hounddogman said:

Heavy 38 special +P+ and 357 loads using rimrock 170 gr. Keith bullet. 15 grains H110 with bullets deep seated in mag brass. This is the max load in the lyman manual. 2.5" barrel average 1188 fps. 4 5/8" barrel average 1346 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1711 fps. The following are not book loads but safe in my guns, work up your own blah blah 😀. 8.2 grains longshot with bullets full length in mag brass. 2 1/2" barrel 1140 fps. 4 5/8" barrel 1274 fps. 6.5 grains longshot in 38 brass. 2 1/4" barrel 1010 fps. 2 1/2" barrel 971 fps. 4 " barrel 1058 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1377 fps. 6 grains unique in 38 spl. brass. 2 1/4" barrel 1000 fps. 2 1/2" barrel 979 fps. 4 " barrel 1030 fps. 18 1/2" barrel 1241 fps. Couple of thoughts. The 2 1/4" 38 special sp101 is consistently faster than the 2 1/2" 357 gp100 and only shoots to point of aim with heavy bullets hence most this data. The 2 loads in 38 brass are very easy to shoot in K frame and larger guns . The 8.2 grains of longshot is pretty potent from the 2 1/2" barrel but downright pleasant compared to H110. Less noise, muzzle blast and recoil and only 40 fps less.

This is an excellent post. I have a couple of questions if you would allow me:
Was the 170 Keith used for all this data?
If so, are you using a plain base or gas check bullet?
Is your bullet conventionally cast and lubricated or powder coated?

For you guys who might not be aware, Frank and company at Rimrock offer custom sizing. I measured 5 Smith and Wesson.357’s for a shooting buddy yesterday and the throats were very consistent at .3575” which is a bit smaller than my typical Ruger.

[2 Dogs]

Feb 15, 2023 15:19:22 GMT -5 Fowler said:

I have pondered if one would be wise to switch powders for a shorter barreled revolver.

I have noticed in the past that short barreled guns with 2-4" barrels and heavy loads of H110 and similar powders can really make for some big muzzle blasts and fireballs, my assumption is that it is wasted powder and energy basically. So would a guy looking for a high performance load for short barreled gun be better with a faster powder such as W231, Bullseye, or a middle speed powder such as HS6, Power Pistol, or Longshot?

Thoughts?

Bill, this is a timely thread as one of the Smiths my buddy pulled out yesterday was a 2 1/2” Model 19! I don’t have one of those. I hope I don’t fall in love with it….

I’m going to link this thread to my .357 thread if you would allow.