gun safety from a typical fire proof safe???

[magnumwheelman]

So I built a walk in gun safe room, where theft, Fire, & the resulting water damage were primary concerns... I'm curious if anyone has had a few guns in a typical fire safe, that went through a fire, how did the guns fair, & where was your safe in relation to the fire???

My thoughts are, I would hate to have a heavy safe with a basement under it, in a major house fire ( damages of the safe falling though the floor ) but putting one in the basement leaves all that water used to fight the fire, following gravity to the basement, & the chance of debris on top of the safe, that may put off recovering the contents until insurance settlements Fire inspection, etc. thus putting off emptying the safe for long enough, that the water could damage the contents, even if the safe prevented fire damage... even if you had sump pumps in the basement, it's likely the power would be disrupted, so no pumping... my safe room description is described in the "I want it" thread in the Links page... mine happens to have the sump pump pits also tiled to drain water if the power was out... I'm sure there are always things like smoke damage & such, that get over looked, but just how safe are the contents of a fire proof safe, in an actual badly burned house fire???

[kings6]

About 7 years ago we had my old pickup torch off when it was started in the garage. My safe was in the house that ended up getting filled with smoke. No damage to those guns from smoke. My sons gun safe was about 6’ from the front of the truck where it torched off BUT since it was visible from the garage windows, I had it covered with one of the grey U-Haul blankets to reduce its “presence”. That blanket did not even singe! We had to have those guns fully cleaned to avoid smoke damage but that blanket even protected the paint on that non fire rated safe from bubbling!

[leadhound]

One setup I read about years ago was a high security all metal safe with no fireproofing and a stand alone fire sprinkler directly overhead. But this was built on a solid foundation. The idea was that most fireproof safes only handle x amount of heat for y amount of time, and are generally built with fairly thin metal and gypsum or some other lining that can be cut/drilled through. Seemed logical, but then would have to worry about flooding if sprinkler was damaged?

[crazyhorse]

All my safes are fire proof. I hope they are never tested because I have my doubts. I buy safes to be Thug proof in case of a break in.

[bigbrowndog]

In the Fire service we used to say fireproofing is much like Nuclear protection,….Time, Distance, and Shielding. Yes fires can get very hot, so hot that even firefighters protective clothing offer no protection. Yes the clothing will be there but the firefighter will be dead, luckily those instances are few and require very specific conditions to take place.
Number one concern would be are you urban, suburban or rural??
Number two, is your fire protection 24hr fully manned, or Volunteer??
Number three, what is their normal response time?? As well as likelihood of assisting units response time, because a single unit rarely stops a house fire.
Number four, where is your nearest hydrant or water supply?? If a lot of water is not readily available then getting early control of the fire is slim.
Number five, is your FD trained to enter a burning building and fight fire from the unburned side, or surround and drown?? If they are concerned with only “saving” exposed structures and stopping fire spread, then saving the slab for you will be all you can hope for.
Number six, do you live in a brick and mortar home or a fabricated home?? Fabricated homes are seldom saved even with the quickest response times, and they tend to burn very hot.
Number seven, where is your safe with regards to the source of the fire?? Since we will never really know where a fire will start or if we will be home or awake when it does it’s best to take the necessary steps to be “safe” and avoid the possibility of a fire to begin with. Don’t overuse outlets, don’t use extension cords as permanent installations, clean your dryer vents, don’t burn candles unless supervised, dont leave a fire in your fireplace when you go to sleep or leave the house, don’t weld or operate cutting torches or grinding wheels inside a structure with flammable materials, etc. etc. etc.
A few years ago there was a wildfire in North Texas that went through some rural vacation homes, the homes were burned to the slab, but the gun safes were all still there standing. I do not know the condition of the guns inside. Heat is the real killer, and the condition of stocks both wood and synthetic would be my temperature gauge for metal destruction or safety.
All of these things I have personally seen destroy good sized portions of the homes. So there are lots and lots of things to consider.

Trapr

[nicholst55]

Search YouTube on this subject. There are several videos of people opening fire-damaged safes (with a chop saw (carbide blade) and pry bars, from the back). Even if the safe doesn't fall through the floor into the basement full of water, things generally don't go well if the fire is hot and well fueled in the vicinity of the safe.

[blacktailslayer]

Brian Pierce had an article in either Handloader or Rifle where he helped a neighbor clean guns from a safe that was in a house fire. It was interesting, wish I knew where I put that issue, maybe someone here remembers it and can find it and let us all know which mag & issue it is.


Don D.

[bisleyfan41]

Worked in a gunshop where somebody had brought in some guns that went through a severe house fire in which the safe was in the living room. House was heavily damaged and the safe was subjected to the fire for some time. The guns they brought in were covered in rust with the wood pretty burned up.

The Ruger 77 Mk.2 looked the best, but still pretty bad. Sent it to Ruger for evaluation. They said it could've suffered damage to the heat treat of the steel and trashed it. Don't know the brand of safe (but supposedly fireproof) or duration of it in the fire. Safes are better than nothing, but wouldn't bet on complete protection.

[parallaxbill]

I bought my safe from this guy. But mine is not fire proof, only burglar proof because it is a converted commercial bank cash safe rated TL30x6.

He talks about fire protection and how most safes do not do well in house fires. He also told me personally that smoke damage, even in a fire that is not hot enough to burn wood will ruin any gun that has a blued finish that was not stored in a gun sock.

youtu.be/3FWQplS4gvM

[magnumwheelman]

Video was pretty interesting... thanks for posting...

We live in the country, in a 100 year old farm house... so I'll repeat, theft, fire, & the resulting water was what I was most concerned about... FIL, who collected before me, also lived here... he had 4 of the cheapest no fire rated gun lockers ( I would say, only safe to keep the kids from messing with them ) of course my wife was the youngest, & she was well past the messing with them stage when he bought the gun lockers...

living in the country, & in a 100 year old house, I would say the chances of burning to the ground, is much higher than living in the city... any fire fighting water would have to be tankered in, & by the time we got response, & everything coordinated I think the house would be a total loss... in fact when I did some remodeling a few years ago I found a wall that had tacked in old feed bags full of horse hair between the studs ( don't think that's a fire hazard )... I went out & bought 8-10 fire extinguishers, after I stripped those out of that wall & replaced them with fiberglass... I have redone "most of the wiring, but short of ripping all the plaster & lathe off the whole upstairs, I can't eliminate all the old cloth wrapped wiring, or substandard insulation... so we just don't use most of those circuits, & many on the main floor have just been disconnected & new lines run... our county is way short on sheriff's deputies, so break in's are at an all time high around here... we have an alarm system on the house, & lots of signs outside...

the actual safe room is outside of the main foundation of the house, it's buried deeper, actually 3 steps down from the basement level, & a 3 season porch covers it's top, to keep the "patio" dry, it shares one wall with the basement of the house, & like I mentioned in the other thread, that shared wall is 14" thick, & is a combination of concrete & field rocks of various sizes... the custom made door opens in, & is just off our bedroom ( yes bedroom is in the basement ) so the room does extra duty, as a "safe room", & a storm shelter... it has both positive and negative fresh air ventilation, with the intention of, if we couldn't get out of the house due to the location of a fire, we could survive with no issues in a full burn to the ground house fire... the alarm system on the house also covers smoke & heat sensors, as well as break in protection... yep, the walk in gun safe room was expensive ( much cheaper & easier putting it outside the foundation of the original house ) & cost me about 3 years of "collectings" worth of gun money, but I think it was well worth it for protecting our collection, and the added safety it provides us personally

[parallaxbill]

My house, that I'm retiring to shortly was built in 1911. My dad and I completely gutted it in 1983 with all new floors, wiring, roof, interior walls etc. Before I move in I will have it inspected, especially the wiring.
Another tip Mike Griffin gave me was that house fires usually burn much hotter and longer than detached garage fires due the sheer amount of combustible materials involved. However, a friend of mine had a large garage fire last year and although he had a fire rated safe he lost all the guns in that safe. I've seen the pictures after Mr Griffin came out to open his safe.

The bottom line is, a fully involved fire is going to ruin or destroy your firearms. A smaller fire may not, especially if you protect them from smoke damage.